Haunts, Frights and Murder: It's the Sinister South Halloween Spooktacular!

Hi Trevor's, Hannah here... I'm putting out a public service announcement, this episode is all for Rach, I couldn't give a damn about Halloween, but I quite like her and she loves it. She calls it her "Spiritual Holiday", so...I buckled to the pressure and we've done an episode with a bit of a twist (I say twist, we're pretty sure EVERY true crime podcast does something similar at this time of year, and apparently Rach likes bandwagons). Don't say I didn't warn you!

Rach here... I BLOODY LOVE HALLOWEEN! So In this episode, we're really putting the 'Sinister' in Sinister South and talking about the spooky, creepy and weird tales that South London has to offer! Think ghosts, decapitations, death, destruction and chilling apparitions, think macabre, desperate, hauntings all with a dash of pumpkin spice... (Which would have been my moniker had I been in the Spice Girls)!

Also, Will had ALOT of fun editing this one as you'll hear...

Usual service will resume next week but let me have this one okay! It's been a bit of a month guys, let us have some fun!

Sources used in this episode:
https://amyscrypt.com/haunted-old-operating-theatre-london/
https://fortheloveofhistoryhome.wordpress.com/2021/11/19/seven-sinister-stop-of-london/
https://www.spookyisles.com/ghostly-wandsworth-south-londons-most-haunted/
https://wandlenews.com/haunted-wandsworth/
https://www.rmg.co.uk/queens-house/attractions/queens-house-ghost
https://www.theblackvault.com/casefiles/tulip-staircase-ghost/
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-battersea-poltergeist/id1548946506
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battersea_Poltergeist
https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/battersea-poltergeist-1956
https://bafflegab.co.uk/productions/the-battersea-poltergeist/ 
https://apeaceoflondon.wordpress.com/2016/04/06/chislehurst-caves/
https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-europe/chislehurst-caves-0011636
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chislehurst_Caves
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08vdx09
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45588088
https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/croydon-cat-killer
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2300921-london-cat-serial-killer-was-just-foxes-dna-

Thanks for tuning in! If you loved diving into the dark corners of South London with us, don't forget to hit that subscribe button to never miss an episode of "Sinister South."

Also, follow us on Instagram @SinisterSouthPodcast for sneak peeks, behind-the-scenes content, and more cheeky banter, or www.sinistersouthpod.co.uk. Remember, every crime tells a story... and South is the best side of the river...

Produced and hosted by Hannah Williams & Rachel Baines
Mixed & edited by Purple Waves Sound (A.K.A Will)

Transcript

Halloween

Hello. Hi, I'm Rachel. I'm Hannah.

And this is the Sinister Self podcast with a twist. Yeah, basically, we are going to do what I'd say, I don't know, every other podcast does when it hits Halloween. And that there was some hand gestures there that you can't see because it's not a visual medium.

But yeah, we are going to change this up a little bit. Because I'm very excited. I've never seen you this.

I love it. I love it. It is goth Christmas, everybody.

And that means that it is my spiritual holiday. And I'm very happy. That spooky season is upon us.

And I love it very much. Although I am going to have a bone to pick with some things I've been seeing recently. Okay, right.

What the fuck is a boo basket? Oh, see, I thought you'd be right into that. No. What? Why? This close to Christmas, when I've already got to do all the fucking shit.

You get made one. Oh, my husband's never gonna make me a boo basket. Also, what would he put in it? Also, we're 35.

What do you put in it? Oh, here's some, a blanket. Like, isn't that what they put in? I don't need any more blankets. And like, a copy of Hocus Pocus on DVD.

I mean, to be fair. Yeah, I could. I mean, I could do that.

Anyway, just gonna pull that one out very quickly. So yeah, we have decided that we are going to find we're going to talk to you about some slightly more creepy stories from South London, rather than outright murder. Although that is not murder and crime in this episode.

But we're just Yeah, we're focusing on the fact that it's we get to talk about spooky things. And I get to let my inner goth out and I love it. And I walked to the tiny shed ending a conversation with your husband is like, right, I'm gonna go and pretend to give a shit about Halloween.

Now. I'm not doing a great job of pretending. So I mean, we could do a special one for bonfire night, if you wanted.

Yeah, sure. I was trying to think of something that you care about as much as I might care about Halloween. And you think I care about fireworks night? As much as you care about? No, but you do like fireworks a lot.

My birthday. Okay, we'll do it your birthday, your birthday, we will do a retrospective on all of your cases. So you could just do a massive feedback and fuck ups for my birthday.

No, so I can talk about how amazingly journalistic and we can chat about aggregate with just talk about Martianess again, and then bill it as Martianess part two, and see if the incredible spike in downloads comes back. People be loving the slag. They loved the slag.

But no, so we're doing things as I say, slightly different spooky stories. But also, you're gonna hear from both Hannah and I today, we've both got stories. We both kind of know what the stories are roughly about.

But we don't know the ins and outs of all of it. So you'll still get the really. But yeah, and if you don't like the format of this episode, then just and don't ruin my spiritual holiday format.

Thank you. In general, if you actually don't like the format of this episode, it is fine. Everything will be back to normal.

Until I decide that we're going to do something equally as ridiculous for Christmas. I feel like we're giving very much the Sam Thompson, Pete Wicks energy of like, one of us being an excitable puppy and the other one being like, I don't fucking care. I mean, I'm happy to be the excitable puppy on Halloween.

Anything pumpkin. I'm here for it. But yeah.

Anyway, you're starting. Okay, I was gonna ask you how you were, but we just go straight. We've got time.

Okay, fine. How am I I am I am fine. There we go.

How are you? Yeah. Oh, good. Thanks.

Let's get on with it. I think to be honest, like, it's without meaning to like, keep on the whole like, life be life in train. Yeah, it's it's fucking life in my also bone to pick with people.

I've had two separate friends say to me, I don't feel the need to see you as much because I hear you every week. So do you know what, I'm not gonna tell you any more of my personal secrets. If you want to know them, you'll still have to buy me wine.

I love that. I love that so much. See, whereas the people that I know, just don't tell me anything.

So no feedback. For your dad thinks we've recorded live as soon as he puts his earplugs in. My dad does think that it's recorded live as soon as he puts his earplugs in.

My mum was begging for an episode that didn't have murder in it. And then when she got it said that she didn't really like it. Oh, the Jesus jumpers.

She's like, I didn't really like that episode as much. Why not think as I murder in it. Yeah, but you're not gonna like this.

So it's a it's murder adjacent. Do we think it's I mean, it's spooky. There we go.

There we go. But yeah. So yeah, how are you genuinely? Yeah, I'm all right.

I'm living my life. Yeah. interviewing.

Trying to keep the train on the track. Yeah. Yeah.

I think that actually, with that in mind, we're bordering on 20,000 downloads of the podcast. 20,000. Jesus fucking mental.

Absolutely mental. But I was thinking that if life carrying on be life in if life carry on be life in. Exactly.

I'm gonna launch Patreon just because we need to eat. So if anybody, when we hit 20,000, we will ask you for money. If you would like to continue to listen to the content.

You need to feed us. Oh, dear. Anyway, are you all right? Yeah, I'm all right.

I'm genuinely fine, mate. It's just just cracking. I'm very excited about pumpkin season.

Okay, so all good. Come on, then. All right, go on.

I'm ready. I'm settled in. I've got some stuff for you here.

I'm going to add some pep to my voice now. Oh, my God. Halloween.

Wow. Yes. Also, another bone to pick.

Sorry, before you start. Jesus. So we've done the boo basket.

We've just done all my pep. I know. I know.

I'm sorry. You have to do hard drugs now, Rachel. But no, boo baskets don't understand them.

Also don't understand people putting up their Christmas tree and decorating it with pumpkins in an attempt to make it a Halloween tree that then it's just you're just lazy. Can't be bothered to take it down. No, I don't.

I don't agree with that. I don't. I don't.

I love my Christmas tree. So any excuse to your Christmas tree is banging. It is really cool.

It's really cool. So I am I am a like December first. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Like if I've managed to wait that long. Yeah.

But yeah, no, no, I don't get like a tree for other seasons. It's an autumnal tree. No, it's not.

Look outside. They're autumnal trees. Anyway.

Sorry. That was my last my last thing. I'll get back.

I'm gonna I'm gonna put more pep in me. Go for it. In my step.

Go for it in my voice. If you interrupt me again. Halloween's cancelled.

Okay, I'll be very, I'll be very quiet. I've written you some stories, some light little short. I did.

This is pure love. Okay, because I don't give a fuck about any of this. This is pure love for you.

I love you so much. The next little bit. So I'm going to do some spooky buildings in South London.

I have four of them. Nice. And I'm starting with the old operating theatre museum in Bankside.

Oh, I've always wanted to go. I've never been. So tucked away in the darkened attic of an 18th century church just moments from London Bridge lies one of London's oldest surviving surgical theatres.

The old operating theatre museum with its weathered wooden seats and cracking floor and creaking floors is a place where time stands still a reminder of a much more grizzly period in medical history. Constructed in 1822, within the garret of South of St. Thomas's Church, the theatre was part of St. Thomas's Hospital, serving as a space for medical students to witness surgeries firsthand. But here, there was no anaesthetic.

Anywhere there was no anaesthetic. The patients, predominantly poor women, faced surgeries that were often more brutal than lifesaving. The sound of their screams echoing off the vaulted ceilings is said to have haunted the minds of the medical students long after the scalpels had been laid down.

Surgeons worked quickly, their hands moving with grim efficiency, as any delay could mean the difference between life and death, or worse, unbearable agony. The cold stone walls of the operating theatre were a silent witness to hundreds of surgeries, many performed in vain, and it is said that the spirits of the patients still linger. There are whispered tales of visitors feeling a sudden chill, the temperature dropping unnaturally as they stand where the patients once lay.

Some claim to have seen the faint outline of a figure in the gallery, watching silently as if still observing from centuries ago. Beyond the operating theatre lies the herb garret, where apothecaries prepared medicinal herbs and strange concoctions. The strong earthy scents of dried plants like opium and mandrake roots still cling to the air, mingling with the faint scent of ether, a substance once used in early anaesthesia experiments.

Today the garret is a museum filled with surgical instruments that look more like the instruments of torture. Rusted bone saws and steel scalpels sit quietly, but their sharp edges hint at the suffering they once inflicted. But perhaps the most unnerving part of this historical site is the sense of an invisible presence.

Museum staff and visitors alike report unexplained sounds, footsteps echoing through empty halls, the soft hum of disembodied voices, and the unmistakable sound of something dragging across the floor. Some even swear they've seen shadows darting between the beams, slipping just out of view. Is it just the wind, or perhaps the spirits of those who suffered there, still restless, waiting for release? Oh yes, you do love me.

I do love you. I'm so happy right now, I'm so happy. I feel like I need a campfire and a torch underneath my chin.

Don't push it Rach. Don't push it. So my second haunted building is the phantom of St Mary's Church, Putney.

And I checked 20,000 times where Putney is, and it is South London. So in the heart of Putney, overlooking the serene Thames, stands St Mary's Church, a place of worship that has witnessed centuries of history, from royal weddings to political upheaval. But beyond its role in England's storied past, the church is said to be home to something far more unsettling, the phantom of St Mary's.

So the church, dating back to the 13th century, is steeped in history. It was here during the tumultuous English Civil War that the Putney debates were held in 1647, with radical discussions about democracy and governance. Yet, amid the weighty discourse and holy rites, something more ethereal lurks.

Legend has it that one of St Mary's oldest spirits is the ghost of a long departed woman, believed to be the wife of a former rector who died under mysterious circumstances in the 1600s. Known as the Grey Lady, she has been seen gliding silently through the darkened aisles, her presence marked by a sudden drop in temperature and the faint scent of roses said to have been her favourite flower in life. She appears only at night, her face pale and expressionless, as though waiting for something, or someone.

Visitors and parishioners have reported strange occurrences within the church's ancient walls. Candles flicker when there's no draft and footsteps echo in the empty nave, as if someone unseen is walking alongside. On quiet nights those brave enough to enter claim to hear the soft sound of a woman weeping, the noise carried on a cold breeze that swells through the churchyard.

It is said that if you follow the sound it leads you to a forgotten corner of the churchyard where her tombstone, now weathered and cracked, lies nearly hidden by overgrown ivy. But the Grey Lady isn't the only presence in St Mary's. In the tower which has stood watch over the church for centuries, a shadowy figure has been spotted by many.

A tall man dressed in black, his features obscured, silently pacing the narrow staircases. Local lore suggests that he might be the spirit of a medieval knight who sought sanctuary within the church walls after a failed battle. His spirit is said to be bound to the place, never at peace, doomed to wander the church he once sought protection in.

More chilling still are the strange knocks and bangs heard from beneath the church floor. Some speculate they come from the ancient crypt, long sealed off from the public. Could these sounds be echoes of those buried below, or is this something more sinister trying to make its presence known? I'm so, I'm so in, so in.

So, on to building number three. You do realise that we're going to have to do some sort of like, I'm really worried you're going to kiss me in a minute. No, I will do that.

But I'm also now being like, okay, so I know what I'm doing for my birthday. Haunted Tour of South London, please. Fucking hell.

Fine. I think I've been to the operating museum and I think it's really good. Yeah, I've not been.

It's one of those ones that's been on my list and I've just not managed to get there yet. Because there's the other one as well that's kind of round there, which is like all weird things in test tubes and stuff. Oh, yeah.

You'll like that one too. Yeah. Okay, so on to my third building and in a realm I'm much more comfortable in.

Okay. This is the Crane Pub. Nice.

In Wandsworth. So dating back to the early 18th century, the Crane Pub has long been a meeting place for locals and travellers alike. However, beneath the cheerful clatter of pint glasses and lively conversation, there are whispered stories of a ghostly presence that has lingered here for generations.

Legend has it that the pub was once the site of a grisly murder. In the late 1700s, a local man accused of stealing was brutally attacked and left for dead in what was then the inn's stable yard. His assailants were never caught and though his name has been lost to history, his spirit seems unwilling to leave.

To this day, regulars at the Crane speak of the phantom patron, a shadowy figure sitting alone in a quiet corner of the pub, his back to the room, nursing an invisible drink. When approached, he disappears, leaving only an eerie chill in the air. The basement of the pub is particularly notorious for paranormal activity.

The original foundations of the building are still intact and it is here, among the cold stone walls and the flickering lights, that staff have reported unsettling encounters. Heavy footsteps echo in the empty space and objects seem to move of their own accord. Some say the spirit of the murdered man haunts the basement, trapped between worlds, forever seeking justice for his untimely death.

On several occasions, patrons have claimed to hear the sound of hooves clattering against the cobblestones late at night, long after the streets have emptied. The noise is said to come from the ghostly carriage that once ferried away the body of the murdered man, a spectral echo of the fateful night centuries ago. The pub's upstairs rooms, once used as lodgings, also hold their own share of ghostly tales.

Guests have reported waking up to the sensation of being watched, only to find the room empty. Others have felt an unseen hand brushing past them in the hallway, sending shivers down their spine. Oh, it's so good.

Did I tell you about the ghost at the Fox? No. I must have told you about it, haven't I? I don't know why I don't remember it. So, I tried to fill this episode, I tried to see if I could find anything about that case, but I can't, like, literally nothing came up.

But when I lived at the Fox and when I worked at the Fox, there was this very well-known story amongst the staff and the regulars that there was, because it's a really old building as well, it's from like the 1800s, 1700s, and they used to have stables out where the toilets are at the back of the pub. And apparently a woman was murdered in the stables, and we used to always joke about the ghost because, like, and you used to be able to talk to her, you'd go, like, oh, shut up, and she'd, like, stop. So she used to, like, beep on the cash machine when it was all closed and we'd taken the cash machine out, so there was no way it could work anymore, because we'd removed all the stuff, and it would beep and light up.

And then you used to get glasses that genuinely, you'd sit them, like, because we used to quite often have lock-ins, you used to put your empty glasses, because the dishwasher will have been sorted, you put your empty glasses on top for the first shift in the next day to wash them, they'd be on the middle of the bar, and genuinely, I saw it, like, four or five times where glasses would just fly off. And then when we were living upstairs, there was this really creepy part of the pub where, as you went up the stairs and around to the front, because the stairs were at the back of the pub, and then my bedroom was around the front of the pub, you had to walk past, essentially, where they'd built the extension for the toilets. And it was, like, this outdoor courtyard, like, on the roof, and it was always pitch black, but there were these massive windows that looked out onto it, because they're the original windows from before they put the extension on, and the amount of times there was a face at that window, it was just, like, yeah.

It's Halloween, so I won't come in with science and logic. I'm just gonna let you have that. Thank you.

I had a flatmate at uni who was doing psychology for his degree, and his dissertation he did on the whole thing was about the psychological phenomena of spookiness. And he did it all about, like, what it actually is, and all of that, and I was just like, you were just a spoiler. Don't ruin it.

Bloody Chester. So I have one more for you. Yeah.

And this is probably my favourite. Okay. And the picture that I will talk about during this bit is harrowing, and I wish I hadn't googled it.

Okay. So I'm going to immediately google it. I'm surprised.

As soon as I start, you'll have picked up your phone. Okay. Well, or you'll have opened your laptop.

Yeah, fine. So my final spooky building is the Queen's House in Greenwich. Built in 1616 for Queen Anne of Denmark, the wife of King James I, Queen's House has seen centuries of history, from royal banquets to political intrigue.

But it is perhaps the House's more tragic moments that have left their mark in ways that even time cannot erase. One of the most well known ghostly encounters at Queen's House takes place on the tulip stairs, a delicate spiral staircase with intricate raw iron railings that seems to invite the ethereal... I really struggle with that word. You've done really well.

Thanks. Apocryphal though. In 1966, a photograph taken by a visitor shocked even the most sceptical of onlookers.

The image appeared to show a ghostly figure ascending the stairs, one hand clutching the railing, the other reaching out as if in desperation. The photographer swore that no one else was present at the time. And to this day, experts have been unable to explain the apparition in the photograph.

The tulip stairs seem to be a focal point for paranormal activity. Visitors report strange sensations as they climb, heavy footsteps following them, icy gusts of air that seem to appear from nowhere, and even whispers that vanish into the silence. Some believe the figure captured in the photograph may be a servant who met an untimely death on the stairs, while others speculate it could be one of the many royal figures who had passed through the halls over the century.

But the ghostly presence at Queen's House is not limited to the stairs. Staff and visitors have often reported feeling watched in the Great Hall, an imposing and beautifully designed space where royal ceremonies once took place. Many claim to see fleeting shadows, and some have even heard the faint sound of music as though an invisible orchestra is still playing a long-forgotten royal gathering.

Most chilling of all, there are whispered stories of a woman in white who has been seen roaming the upper floors of the house. Dressed in flowing robes, she moves silently through the rooms, her face pale and solemn, vanishing as quickly as she appears. It is said that she may be the spirit of a heartbroken royal figure, mourning a lost love or a shattered ambition, forever bound to the house she once called home.

The photo is awful. Is it awful as in it's really bad? As in I'm gonna have to look at it again to show you it, but... Oh. It's weird, right? Oh no.

It is really weird. I don't like that. Oh that's, yeah.

That's some sort of like ring shit. I'm not... Don't, don't. I don't want to think about it anymore.

Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Well, thank you very much for the haunted building. It makes me very, very happy.

I've got a haunted-y place, kind of, now. Do you want me to tell you about that? Why the devil not? Well, probably because of the devil. Because of the devil.

Also, it really upsets me that I can't eat more tweezers during this podcast. I mean, you can. Just, just get lots of ASMR.

Oh, I would never eat on mic. I might eat over here. We'll do that then.

I don't mind. Right, so I am going to take over for a little bit. So my spooky place that I'm going to talk to you about is slightly different.

In a very leafy, very lovely and very expensive suburb of South London, you can find an underground labyrinth of caves. And I've put inverted commas around them because they are actually man-made mines or Cretaceous chalk, but caves sounds better. I did not know.

I did not know they were man-made. Yeah, man-made, man-made. Carving out the chalk.

But yeah, caves just sounds better. And these were used as a large-scale underground air raid village during the Blitz, which housed around 15,000 people a night. A concert venue during the 60s and 70s, which hosted the likes of Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, The Rolling Stones, David Bowie, Peter Frampton and more.

A set for BBC shows, including Doctor Who and Merlin, and formed the backdrop for music videos, including Honey and Sulfur by Cradle of Filth. And more interestingly for this episode, it's also a supposed site of druid human sacrifice. Oh my! Oh my! Yeah, to think that I would be writing the words cradle of filth.

At the age of 35 was not something that I had on my bingo card. Yeah, of course. All right.

Don't, honestly. Little angry goblin man. Anyway, so... Don't call me that.

So we are, of course, talking about the Chislehurst Caves. And these man-made mines, they cover 22 miles or 35 kilometers. And they are made up of tunnels, rooms and caverns that live under the village of Chislehurst in London.

So there's some debate over how old the caves are. And there's a lot of speculation and rumor and like, what's the story that sounds better? And to be honest, because it's Halloween, I'm going to go with the story that sounds better. So some people say that they go back as far as the Saxons.

So that's around 400 to 500 AD. Some suggest they go around, they go back as far as 6500 BC, when the landmass of Britain was separated from the rest of Europe. So they're old, right? They're old.

The guides at Chislehurst will tell you that the caves are divided into three sections. The oldest area known as the Druid section is where we're going to focus this story. So the claim is that the oldest section of the caves were mined by Druids, Romans and then Saxons.

And it came from a man called William Nicholls in 1903. He was the vice president of the British Archaeological Association. And he wrote his snappily titled paper, The Chislehurst Caves and Dean Holes.

And this is what he wrote. Proceeding on our way, we get beyond the range of electric lamps. Here candles or hand lamps are lit as we pass through a succession of galleries of various dimensions, some of which being only four foot wide and five foot high.

There is one gallery of the last mentioned height and width, 63 foot long with several sharp turns, which formerly terminated in a chamber about 12 foot high and 10 foot wide. He was very into his measurements. The only entrance was by a small hole at ground level, and near it is a seat cut into an angle on the walling.

Might not this well-protected chamber have been a hiding place for treasure? The Druids and chief men of the tribe had, as is well known, considerable hordes of pure gold ornaments, massive breastplates, torques and amalé arms, jewels and gold coins of many nationalities. As well as their own mining. Minting.

As well as their own minting. Oh dear. What safer place could be found for valuables of this kind than such a chamber 100 feet below the surface of the woodland, guarded by men whose failure in their duty to the chief would ensure a speedy death? I know.

He then goes on to say, not far from the chamber, we see one of the most interesting sites that these caves can show us. A series of galleries with rectangular crossings, containing many chambers of semicircular or aspidal form to the number of 30 or more. Some having altar tables formed in the chalk within a point or two of true orientation.

The theory is supported by the discovery of an adjoining chamber, apparently intended for the officiating priest. There is an air of profound mystery pervading the place. A hundred indications suggesting that this was a subterranean stonehenge and one is struck with a sense of wonder and even awe as the dim lamplight reveals the extraordinary works which surround us.

So why have I included all of this on a True Crime podcast? Well, because if the idea that the Druids were the first people using the caves is true, and many naysayers will say that that's nonsense, but I'm not one of them, then there was definitely just a smidge of cannibalism and human ritual sacrifice taking place. So just a smidge, just a tiny little smidge. Inside the caves at one of the altars that Nicholls describes, the cave guides when you go, and honestly, if anyone is in the vicinity of Chislehurst or can get there, like I genuinely recommend go to the caves.

It's a really good like couple of hours of your time. Nice. And it is great.

And the guides are brilliant. But they will, when you get to one of these altars, they will point out that they say was likely, you know, that it was likely used to sacrifice children in the hope of bringing a good harvest. And at one, there appears to be a piece of the chalk that's cut out a bit more that would be where the blood would congeal.

And it's all pretty gory and absolutely brilliant for terrifying small children who are on the tour. I absolutely adored it. My eldest was not happy.

No, of course she isn't. But yeah, so whether or not this is true, it's obviously widely debated. But there is evidence that Druids and Celts did practice human sacrifice.

And the best data supporting this comes from the body of the Lindow man, who is a bog body who dates back to like the first or second century. He was strangled, hit on the head and had his throat cut in quick succession and then was surrendered to the bog. And this man seemed to be of like a high social rank and a willing victim.

So it said that human sacrifice was apparently a completely normal part of Celtic rituals, especially for kings in hard times. And a very intelligent man named Ned Kelly, who is Keeper of Antiquities at the National Museum of Ireland. Great name.

I know, isn't it? He stated that the killings tend to be excessive in that more is done to the bodies than will be required to bring about their deaths. However, it is absolutely not torture, but a form of ritual sacrifice because they're very different things. Of course.

The king had great power, but also great responsibility to ensure the prosperity of his people through his marriage on his inauguration and to the goddess of the land. He was meant to guarantee benevolence and he had to ensure that the land was productive. So if the weather turned bad or there was a plague or disease or losses, then he was held personally responsible.

So whether or not Druids actually did perform sacrifices in South London under a leafy suburb is, we don't really know. We probably never will, but it's a pretty creepy story, especially when you are down there in the dark. And just to add to the creep factor, as I say, if you get the chance to go to the caves, do.

Yeah, it's well worth your time. When you are down there, they will take you to a couple of murals which have been painted onto the doors of the wartime loos, which are still there. And it's done by the, I think it was the daughter of the bloke who owns the caves, who did these back in the 60s.

And basically, she has done her impression of Druidical practices, which are like, they're terrifying to look at. And there is a human sacrifice depicted and also a wicker man that is painted on the wall in these very dark caves. And yeah, by all accounts, it is creepy, even if it's not maybe 100% true.

But yeah. So that was my spooky place. I reckon I could be a bog body.

Do you? I'll take any job at the moment. Oh, I love it. I do find all the bog bodies and stuff like that really interesting.

Because it is just like, when they can say, oh yeah, so these things happened in quick succession. And we know that this one happened first and then this. And then I'm like, what? It's a bit of leather, isn't it? How are you? How have you done this? Figuring this out.

But yeah. Very spooky. Creepy.

Creepy, creepy. Yeah, a bit scary. There we go.

Buckle up. Okay. Are you ready? I'm ready.

I've had my Maltesers. I'm feeling prepped. I love it.

Okay, so. The story begins in a modest family home at 63 Wycliffe Road, Battersea, South London. In 1956.

The Hitchings family, like many others in post-war London, led a quiet, ordinary life. 15-year-old Shirley Hitchings lived with her parents, Wally and Kitty Hitchings, and her grandmother, Ethel, in an unremarkable Victorian terrace house. It was the sort of place where nothing unusual ever seemed to happen.

The home itself was typical of the era. Small, slightly drafty, and worn from years of austerity following World War II. Its creaky floors and coal-scented air had always been familiar and comforting.

That is, until the poltergeist made its presence known. The haunting began subtly. Shirley discovered a cold, strange key on her bed one morning.

An object no one in the family recognised. This seemingly trivial event marked the start of a long and terrifying ordeal. Soon after, the family heard loud, scratching noises from within the walls and under the floorboards.

At first they assumed it was rats, but when the sounds became louder and more erratic, fear took hold. Wally, a practical man and a train driver, tried to maintain calm, but the disturbances escalated. Objects began moving on their own.

Furniture shifted, personal belongings flew across rooms, and the cold atmosphere filled the house. Despite being in a bustling London neighbourhood, the Hitchings family felt isolated, alone in their terror. Shirley seemed to be the centre of the activity.

Her bed would shake violently, her clothes would fly out of the wardrobe, and items would vanish, only to reappear in bizarre places. The family was now living in fear of what they called Donald. It will scratch your walls.

They're scratching all the walls. And the floor, I've met him. I've met, he's a really great guy.

He's a really great ghost. The best ghost. The poltergeist.

He's a very practical man. He drives a train. Fucking hell.

Anyway, come on, I'm being mysterious. You have your bloody comedic timing. Oh, right, okay.

So, the family was now living in fear of what they later, of what they came to call Donald, the entity haunting their home. They had no idea what it was or how to stop it. Put it together.

You're trying so hard. As the disturbances worsened, they drew the attention of neighbours, paranormal investigators, and the media. The case quickly became one of the most well-documented instances of poltergeist activity in Britain.

The strange noises, initially scratching, soon morphed into deafening bangs, sometimes heard by visitors and neighbours. These bangs unnervingly responded to questions as though the entity was trying to communicate. Chairs dragged across floors, cupboards flew open, and objects were hurled with terrifying force.

Shirley's bed levitated in one particularly chilling moment as her parents looked on helplessly. In an attempt to understand the chaos, Wally started to ask the entity questions, to which it responded with knocks. One for yes, two for no.

The communication gave the family a glimpse into the poltergeist's intelligence, though the entity's motives remained unclear. Donald claimed to be the ghost of a man who had lived in the area, though it was far from friendly. The activity intensified, targeting Shirley with increasing aggression.

Paranormal investigator Harold Chibbit was soon called in. Having investigated numerous poltergeist cases, Chibbit found the scale and persistence of the haunting remarkable. He documented furniture moving, objects flying, and the entity's connection to Shirley, whose emotions seemed to trigger the poltergeist's behaviour.

The more anxious or upset Shirley became, the more violent Donald's actions grew. As news of the haunting spread, the Hitchings family found themselves under intense media scrutiny. Reporters gathered outside their home while Shirley became the subject of rumours at school, leaving her increasingly isolated.

Neighbours distanced themselves, fearing bad luck or worse. The poltergeist's activity peaked in the late 50s with the sudden appearance of unexplained fires. Small flames ignited in various rooms without warning.

Strange, illegible writing also appeared on the walls, another sign of the entity's unsettling presence. Despite numerous attempts to rid the house of Donald through blessings, psychic interventions and other means, the haunting persisted. By the early 60s, the activity slowed, though it never fully ceased.

Shirley felt Donald's presence well into adulthood, a constant but less intense companion. The haunting left a permanent mark on her, one that lingered long after the events at Wycliffe Road. The true nature of the Battersea poltergeist remains a mystery.

Was it a genuine paranormal event or something psychological? Modern investigators have proposed various theories, from psychokinesis, where Shirley's emotional stress may have caused the disturbances, to scepticism that the events were exaggerated or misinterpreted. The case gained renewed interest in 2021 through the BBC podcast The Battersea Poltergeist, hosted by Danny Robbins. Blending drama and documentary, the podcast brought the story to a new generation, exploring both supernatural and rational explanations.

While theories abound, no definitive proof has ever emerged. Whether Donald was a poltergeist, a manifestation of Shirley's energy, or something else entirely, the Battersea poltergeist remains one of Britain's most famous unsolved hauntings, an enigma that still captivates both believers and sceptics alike. I love it.

I've always, like with poltergeist ones, it's a bit like with the Enfield haunting as well. There's always a part of me that's just like, yeah, but you're doing it, right? You're doing it. But why I think that when it comes to poltergeists, but I'm fully there when it comes to like, there is a grey lady walking around.

I don't know, but it's interesting. You know, I've had to write all of this with almost like just being completely, you could call me a poltergeist. I've been completely disengaged from my brain because I can't retain this because I'll never fucking sleep again.

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. But I do love you for loving me as much as you do to be able to do it for me.

So thank you. I've got one last story if you fancy listening. I'm slightly different from the ones that we've done before.

It starts off in a similar vein, but yeah, I'll crack on. Go for it, mate. So I've called this simply creepy Croydon.

So as those of you who've listened to this podcast for a while will know, Hannah and I quite often give Croydon a bit of a battering. And some might say rightly so. Not us, obviously, but some.

For example, music legend David Bowie said that Croydon, and I quote, represented everything I didn't want in my life. Everything I wanted to get away from. It was a complete concrete hell.

There you go. And if Bowie says it, It must be true. However, when I was looking for spooky cases for this episode, Croydon delivered.

There is so much fucking random shit that goes on in Croydon that it's insane. So first one. In 1992, Croydon was reported in the Evening Standard as the suburb of the living dead.

Oh God. And in the 2021 census, it reported the highest concentration of witches in London, which makes sense that they then also have one of the largest gatherings of witches, wizards and sorcerers satanists. In the UK.

It's known as Witchfest International. I know spooky, right? They also have a load of really kind of creepy historical cases that have inspired loads of local ghost stories. The most famous one is that of the murder of a young baker's delivery boy who was walking along Baker Boy Lane.

No real indication whether it was called this at the time or if it's been named because of the boy to know. But this was way back in the early 1700s and Baker Boy Lane is like a bridal path that runs from Forestdale to Sulston in Croydon. And when the lane, like it would look a hell of a lot different to what it does now, obviously, in the 1700s.

But while on his way home... Rachel with her hot takes. I know. By the way, things look different now.

Loads of witches in Croydon. But yeah, so like when the Baker Boy was said that he was walking home and apparently he was attacked by a woodman who was hiding among the trees. The attacker was armed with an axe and he hacked the young boy to death before fleeing and he left the murder weapon hidden near a tree.

And then like over the past 300 years, residents have reported seeing the young boy's ghost near to where he was murdered. And it has been reported that he can often be seen walking alone along Old Farley Road, which would have been on his way home apparently. But the most creepy case out of Croydon is a fucking random one and I still am not entirely certain which side of the fence I fall on.

And it's got to be the Croydon cat killer. Oh my God. Okay.

Now, trigger warning for all pet lovers. There are obviously quite a lot of mentions of animal killings in the next bit, but I will kind of like gloss over them as much as possible. So it's disputed as to when people first started associating the deaths of felines, cats with a centralised killer.

But cats were found on their owners doorsteps. They were cut in half. They were decapitated and disemboweled.

And by late 2015, there was an accepted pattern with cats being found all across South London and also reports that they were found across the river in Kent as well. And between 2014 and 2018, more than 300 mutilated cat carcasses were found. So the cats often, and I don't like to say that I am a cat mum too, but the cats often had their heads or tails cut off.

And it was usually done in a really clean way that looked like it was a scalpel blade, which meant that lots of people started to suspect that there was some human involvement. And Detective Sergeant Andy Colin stated, if a fox is taking a cat, they're going to hide it away if they're not eating it there and then so that they can come back to it. But we're finding cats that are left either in the front garden of a house or on a piece of grass where someone could come past and see it.

They're not dumped, they're laid out. The problem that we've got is that whoever is doing this is good. Oh my God.

So it's believed that Penny Beeson's cat, Yukio, was the killer's first victim. And her son Richard is believed to be one of the only people to have seen the suspect at the time. So he saw a man with a mouse stick.

So like one of the squeaky toys on a bouncy string. He saw a man with one of these mouse sticks trying to attract the attention of an animal at 2am in the morning in Croydon. Wayne Bryant also found his eight-year-old cat, Amber, beheaded in Shirley one day after she went missing and her tail was also missing.

Mr. Bryant said that he did a search of the area and he couldn't find the head or the tail. And he said, and I quote, maybe the person who did it kept it as a trophy. I don't understand how somebody could go around doing this to pet cats.

It is sick. And I don't disagree. So in 2015, this is where it gets, it's not funny, but there's some, yeah.

So in 2015, when it was started to be recognised that these cats were being killed and that there could possibly be a connection between the murders, a local couple formed and essentially like a crime fighting team. Yeah, they did. And they named themselves the South Norwood Animal Rescue and Liberty, aka SNARL.

So the couple, Tony Jenkins, and this is her real name, Boudica Rising. Wow. Yep.

They... What a name, I'm sorry. What a name. Isn't it? Boudica Rising.

So yeah, Boudica and Tony, they owned or housed, as they like to call it, 31 cats between them at the time. My Lord. 31.

And at the time they would record the deaths that were happening to the cats in the area. They would collect their remains. They performed post mortems and they approached the police regularly to kind of get them to start investigating it.

They also spoke with the RSPCA with kind of regard to what was happening and to try and see, you know, what did they think as animal experts was happening to these? I just want to ask, did they have any qualifications for these post mortems? I don't think so. I don't actually think it was, to be fair, I don't actually think it was them personally doing it, but I think they were organising them. Oh, fair, fair, fair, fair.

Not just in their kitchen. In that case, that's lovely. Otherwise, fucking weird.

But no, so they spoke to the RSPCA and the RSPCA at the time in 2015 confirmed that the cats that they had examined were decapitated by human hand, which led to further speculation that there was actually a cat serial killer on the list. So animal rights campaign group PETA, they offered a £5,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of the killer in 2016 and included celebrity endorsements of their campaign from the likes of Martin Clunes, Dermot O'Leary and Caroline Flack. This was then increased to £10,000 in 2017 as the charity Outpaste added to the pot.

The Vamps, the band, lead guitarist, yeah, James McVeigh, also offered free tour tickets to anyone who could help track down the cat killer. And Snarl organised a petition which collected more than 40,000 signatures and prompted an official investigation by the police into the incidents and the perpetrator of these killings. So.

You're too right. I mean, not to be, I'm a cat mum and if anything happened to my boys, like, they'd be held to pay. But thinking pragmatically, if this person's doing this and getting away with it, it's a clear escalation path, right? Yeah.

They're going to get so good at it that they're just like, right, fuck it, I can do humans now. Yeah. Like, too right it should be investigated.

Yeah, 100%. I can understand the reticence at the beginning of being a bit like, look, you know, it's Croydon, we've got a lot of crime to fight. Yeah.

But yeah. Concrete hell. There we go.

There we go. Yeah. So.

I was going to do a David Bowie impression then, it would have been terrible and I'm really glad I stopped myself. I'm so upset you stopped yourself. So yeah, in 2017, the first description of the suspected serial cat killer was released.

He was said to be a white man, obviously, in his 40s with short brown hair dressed in dark clothing, possibly with scarring on his face. He was also described as wearing a headlamp or carrying a torch. Tony Jenkins of Snarl said that the description had been shared with them by Surrey police and was based on witnesses to three recent cat killings.

He stated, it matches similar descriptions from other areas. We've been working on this case since October 2015, going up and down the UK, tracking the bodies he leaves behind. I'm very hopeful it's a major breakthrough.

A vet who also looked at the bodies of the victims, but who wanted to remain anonymous for some reason, stated that he thought the killer wore gloves and protective clothing when catching the cats because DNA analysis found no evidence of foreign material beneath their claws. I love the fact that they were doing figurative sculptures of cats. It's brilliant.

Dr Naomi Murphy, who works within the dangerous and severe personality disorders at HM Prison Whitmore in Cambridgeshire, said that this extreme form of cruelty to animals strongly suggests the work of a sadist, someone who enjoyed harming other creatures. And I quote, because these killings involve weapons, it seems like the type of person who plans and gets pleasure from thinking about the pain they're going to inflict. What happens when people are sadistic, like any kind of addiction, they often have to go further and further to satisfy their addiction.

Here we go, me being clever again. Exactly. The BBC wrote about this, and like this was, it was taken really seriously, like, you know, BBC wrote in 2016.

And I quote, quote, I quote, oh, I quote, uh, So, yeah, like, and what's, it sounds really like, I mean, obviously, as a cat parent, like, I don't think it's trivial, but it kind of, it does sound, especially as you've just said, like, there's a load of crime in Croydon, like, what are we doing? But the police did take this seriously when they were, when they were asked to investigate it. And Detective Sergeant Andy Collin, who usually works in the gang and organised crime unit, was asked to head up the case. And during his investigation, he called in a man named Alex Stoll, who is an expert in animal forensic pathology at the Royal College of Veterinarians to carry out postmortems on the 19, on 19 of the cats that had been found.

Shout out to the, the Royal Veterinary College. Yeah, exactly. They're brilliant.

They are indeed. Mr. Stoll stated that he had seen decapitations of cats before and amputations before, but never in this number. And he called the situation, and I quote, bizarre.

I think that's a word, well done Alex. He stated that on the 19 he reviewed, all the victims had signs indicative of blunt force trauma and that there was a blade used at some point on the animal. However, there was no evidence of blood in the animal's fur, suggesting that the decapitations and disembowelment were made postmortem.

He said that he was fairly certain it was the same person performing the mutilations. And it was also confirmed that Arrogen Veterinary Forensics, which is Britain's first animal forensics lab, based at the University of Surrey, were examining the corpses as well. So Detective Colin went as far as to call in profilers from the National Crime Agency to try and shed light on the killer's identity, including Pippa Gregory, who is a Senior Behavioural Investigative Advisor.

And she's written a book on the behavioural profile of Jack the Ripper and is said to have worked on profiles for serial killers and rapists, but I couldn't find who any of those people were. She was quoted as saying, It's not your average animal abuse. You get plenty of animal abuse, but it's the postmortem mutilation and the need to deposit, which is particularly interesting.

We don't know how many of these individuals there are because they're not often found, but those we do know about have been found to have really quite dark and deviant sexual fantasies. Now that's not to say they're doing this to make up for sexual fantasies, but they are getting gratification from the mutilation of the cats. And they also have within them fantasies about mutilating or offending or killing or raping humans as well.

So Detective Colin told Sky News, There is a known link between serial killers and harming animals when you look into their dark history. If you look at offending patterns, the assumption is that the killer is getting some sort of gratification. The concern is that in this case, they will cease getting this gratification and escalate the attack to humans, specifically vulnerable women and girls.

Detective Colin also stated on the BBC documentary series, which covered this case, season two, episode four, that it was without doubt the strangest of cases that he's ever dealt with. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. Why would you want to do that? In the same year, Operation Takahi was launched in conjunction with the RSPCA and SNAL to investigate the crimes and identify a suspect.

Detective Colin said that police were focusing on two or three suspects after compiling a list of 30 to 40 names. And Kirsty Henderson of PETA said that she believed the person responsible shouldn't be underestimated, stating, what I would hate to happen is for people to not take this seriously, to sweep it under the carpet. These are very serious set of crimes and this person is dangerous not only to animals, but also to humans.

A criminologist at Birmingham City University, reflecting the genuine fears felt by many cat owners wrote, it could be argued here that the individual responsible is not only targeting pets, but also their owners by making them stare at the horrors that they have created. By making them pay attention to their actions, this individual is ultimately shattering the very values that compromise suburban and domestic life. So, yeah, I mean, it's fucking terrifying.

It is really fucking terrifying. The investigation into the Croydon Cacula lasted over three years, but there was little to no physical evidence to help police track down the cat ripper. There was no DNA found on any of the animals.

There's no CCTV footage at any of the scenes. There's no clothing that's been found snagged on fences and no murder weapon, which has led to a re-evaluation of the case by police because they can't find any. There's nothing.

There's nothing. So, in 2000, I've done it again. In 2018, the Met announced that after almost three years of investigating hundreds of cases, there wasn't ever actually a cat killer.

OK, so, and I quote, there was no evidence that any of the cats had been killed by a human. However, media reports of a Croydon cat killer or an M25 cat killer, because he did go further out, led to widespread public concern about cats being harmed. And subsequently, many more allegations were received.

Following a thorough examination of the available evidence, officers working alongside experts have concluded that hundreds of reported cat mutilations in Croydon and elsewhere were not carried out by a human and are likely to be the result of predation or scavenging by wildlife. The Met statement also announced that they believe the animals had been victims of major blunt force trauma in the form of vehicle collisions and then mutilation by foxes. Really? Apparently so.

An RSPCA spokesman said that, and I quote, the RSPCA has supported the Metropolitan Police in its investigation into a number of cat deaths over the past three years, and we're pleased that the inquiries have come to a conclusion. Stephen Harris, a retired professor in environmental science at Bristol University, and an expert on urban foxes. That's quite a cool thing.

What are you? I'm an expert on urban foxes. All right. OK.

He wrote in the New Scientist, I mean, and this is like, again, it sounds trivial, but it's like the amount of- No, it doesn't sound trivial at all to me anyway. The amount of publicity that this got and like, you know, it's fascinating. But yeah, so Stephen Harris, he wrote in the New Scientist that the main reason the police hadn't caught the cat killer is because there wasn't one.

He compared the panic surrounding the Croydon cat killer to a similar outcry surrounding a spate of cat deaths in 1998, and there had been a similar panic following the discovery of dozens of cats in Greater London. And at the time, the RSPCA had sought Harris's advice, and those events led to the Met Police opening Operation Obelisk. However, they dropped the case in 1999.

So a year after. Yeah. After Harris inspected several cat carcasses and concluded that they had been killed by cars and mutilated by foxes.

Harris stated, and I quote, We have known for decades that foxes chew the head or tail of carcasses, including dead cats. Did not know that. I know, it's a bit sinister now, isn't it? They've always been sinister.

Oh, I think they're really cute. I mean, no, they are. Don't get me wrong, they are.

Yeah. But they're also very cocky these days. And there is also something like.

Like if a fox came up to me, I would lose my shit. Almost in the same way that I lose my shit when a wasp comes near me. Which is my worst personality trait.

And I'll hear nothing else about it. Because I know not to freak out and I know that's the worst thing to do. But I'm literally like.

Yeah, I don't understand like the people who like feed foxes. Like get them to come to their back garden and feed them like. No, but I quite like them.

I also love the fact that Lewisham foxes just give no fucking shit. Absolutely. New Alton foxes don't give a fuck either.

They do not care. It's like, no, I remember driving back to my mum's once like years ago and when she lived in Ladywell and there was a fox in the middle of the road and I turned around. I'm in a fucking car and I've turned around the corner driving up to this fox and it sat in the middle of the road and it just looks like what the fuck do you want me? What bitch? Like I had to get out of the car to make it move.

God, I would have reversed. I think that was what it was hoping I would do. But I don't like reversing.

I can't see it going backwards. Anyway. So you drive children around.

I know. The less said about it, the better. So by February 2016, the investigation had incurred costs of close to £130,000 and 2,250 man hours in deciding that the Croydon killer was actually hit and run incidents and hungry urban foxes.

That's a lot of hit and runs though. It's a hell of a lot. It is a lot.

Like anyway. So the Met's inquiry found there was CCTV footage showing foxes carrying pet body parts in three of the cases, including in June of 2017 when a cat's head was found in a school playground in Catford and CCTV showed a fox carrying it there. So I mean, they don't give a shit.

No. Oh, kids play here. Fuck it.

Here you go. Be completely traumatised. Enjoy.

They're reading the pets. But yeah, I mean, I don't know why I'm surprised in Catford. Like, you know, there we go.

Although I do find it quite funny that it's like dead cats in Catford. Anyway. Delirious.

Dr. Henry Martineau, head of veterinary forensic pathology at the Royal Veterinary College, carried out postmortems on the six cats whose deaths were initially treated as suspicious. She found... Did I call her Henry? It's Henny. Sorry, Dr. Henny Martineau.

She found puncture wounds not previously uncovered on some of the animals and concluded some had been potentially scavenged. So they don't think that it was the foxes that killed the cats. They think the foxes are just... Found the bodies.

Found the bodies, scavenging them. Chief Inspector Stuart Orton from Hertfordshire Police, who also led a linked investigation, said that the prospect of a person or persons travelling the country and mutilating animals had been eliminated. Evidence suggests that animals have been predated by foxes and there'd also been the death of a rabbit that had been associated with the Croydon Cacula and that had been removed from its hutch.

And in a cat's case after death, it was likely caused by a road traffic collision. So the rabbit and the cat that he looked into, they basically said, yeah, it was hit by a car. But like, like you said at the beginning, like foxes hide their food.

And it's not so much though, like in a playground or in a park or whatever, but the ones that were like left on their owner's doorsteps. Yeah, it does seem a bit... Like that's the only bit that I'm like... Yeah, it is. Yeah, as I say, I'm still very much on the fence as to what I believe.

Chief Inspector Stuart Orton continued, I hope this conclusion brings comfort to pet owners who have up until now been frightened to let their animals out at night. I don't think it does. Well, are you going to cull the foxes? Cull the foxes.

And stop the drivers. Anyway, however, after the case was closed, more than 20,000 people signed a petition to have it reopened and SNARL, as recently as last year, 2023, claimed an additional 200 cases have been reported. They still believe the deaths are human related and families continue to be traumatised by the horrific death and mutilation of their beloved pets.

It was argued that the police only closed the case due to budget cuts. And this is a theory that's been supported by frontline policing commander Amanda Pearson, who admitted that the workload increased as more cases were reported and there weren't enough resources available to keep up. So parallels have been drawn between the Croydon Cat Killer and moral panics, such as the satanic panic in America, in which public fear and lurid headlines amplify perceptions of danger, which puts pressure on authorities to act.

Richard Ward, who is a lecturer and historian of crime and the reporting of crime at the University of Exeter, has stated that the creation of Operation Takahe appears... Taka... Taka... Takeh? T-A-K-A-H-E. T-A-K-A-H-E. Takahe? Yeah, I don't know.

Something. Appears to have been the result of a moral panic. So is there a cat killer still lurking around Croydon and even further afield? Who knows? That's foxes.

It's foxes. Sorry, sorry. It's your special day.

Oh, I don't know. Isn't it weird? Spooky, spooky foxes. Yeah.

Yeah, I kind of like, I remember when it was like the big thing that everyone was talking about, the Croydon cat killer. I can 100% see why people would have assumed that there was some human involvement. I can completely understand why people were concerned about how this would escalate.

When are they going to get bored of animals and turn into humans? Completely see all of it. I think that the thing that got me about it was that it's. They were so invested in it.

Yeah. And then suddenly it was like, oh, and now it's foxes. Yeah, I can see your point.

I understand. Like I can see why there could be doubt. Yeah.

And I am, I'm torn between like the what if, like the what if it is someone and they escalate and then that's like, regardless of the fact that there's like then egg on the face of the place, it's actually like you had an opportunity for that person not to meet that end. Yeah. And you know, but at the same time, when you've got and crime doesn't stop, right? So like when you've probably got missing people being reported, you've got more than likely have murder.

Yeah. Or manslaughter, or like suspicious deaths. You've got burglaries, you've got rape, you've got all of these fucking horrific things are happening to humans and resource is being taken to look at domestic pets.

I can see how some people might be, it might seem egregious to some people. Like I'm that, I'm really torn about that. Yeah.

But that's probably more of a what if. Yeah. Than any like, you have to have rape.

Yeah. I think that the moment it started being, oh, and there's another one over here in Hertfordshire. Oh, and there's one now as far north as Glasgow.

It's like, Come on now. This is, I don't, I don't foresee it. But then serial killers go on holiday.

We've seen that. They do. They do.

But I just think that you'd be really fucking busy. The amount of them. But then I also do like with you, I'm with you on the idea that's a lot of hit and runs with animals.

And like we know just from looking for our cat, you know, like Nemi disappeared without trace. Like she has never been found. No one has cited her.

There's been no one who's called the vet. She was chipped. There's absolutely nothing.

And so I feel like to suddenly then have all these cat bodies turning up from hit and runs. Like, yeah, it's, it's just a bit. It's weird.

It is weird. But no, I agree. It probably is foxes.

But I mean, it probably is. But it's just a bit of a like you'll never. I think for those who believe it's not, you will never persuade them.

Of course. Of course. And for those who believe it is, you'll never persuade them otherwise.

Yeah. So it's just gonna be one of those that goes down like, you know, I think it'll be like the beast of Bodmin and stuff like that. It'll just be an urban folklore.

But yeah, but that's that's the fun of Halloween, right? Yeah. So, Trevor's, that was, that was my little spiritual holiday episode. I'm so happy.

Can I sing Tim Burton? Will I get, have we got royalties? This is Halloween. This is Halloween. That's enough.

I don't care about the royalties. I would pay you to stop. Just don't wanna sing, sing Nightmare Before Christmas.

I had somebody ask me the other day, like they went, oh, so like your daughter must have seen Nightmare Before Christmas. I was like, absolutely. This is fucking terrifying.

Have you seen, I, it creeps me out. And I am like, I mean, I've seen it years ago. Yeah, it's very, but the guy who did the voice of the Oogie Boogie guy died recently, which was quite sad.

But yeah, like it is creepy. It's all stop animation and claymation in it. So that's always fucking weird.

Unnerving. And the same with like Coraline. I refuse to ever let her watch that.

And, but to be fair, I got creeped out by Wallace and Gromit's Wrong Trousers as a child. Again, because it's such a delicate fucking flower. It's just because again, it's the claymation.

It's the clay. So you're just scared of clay. Yeah, I'm terrified of clay that moves.

Can't do it. But yeah, so that was the very weird episode of Sinister South. Are you happy? I'm so happy.

It was unbelievable. There you go. So that's the main thing, eh, Trevor? I'm loving it.

We will be back to regular, regular planned scheduling as of next week. You're doing a case next week. Is it me? Yeah.

Is it? It is. Fuck. I better write one.

But yeah, we will, we will be back to the usual format next week. But if you liked this episode, leave us a nice review. Indeed, do it.

We would really love to get our Instagram numbers up a bit. So if you are listening to the podcast, which we hope you are, hi. Create a load of ghost accounts and follow us.

Spam us with bots. But no, if you, if you could join us over on the Insta, that would be lovely. And I'm hoping that like, I would kind of think that by this far in our podcasting career, we're almost at 30 episodes.

I was hoping that we would have the insipid Facebook group by now. Yet to have formed. Just saying.

We just might not know about it. It might have formed purposefully so they can bit. Yeah.

I wish Rachel would fucking stop with a cackle. That would be good. Hannah, take something seriously.

For fuck's sake. I just really know. Love all the ASMR with the vaping and the drinking and the burping.

I am Bob knows me. Oh yeah, that was you. Don't know why I find that the most egregious thing that's happened in this episode.

I did not. Well, I think that's fair, mate. But yeah, so we've got an Instagram.

Go find us on that. There's a tick tock as well. If I've bothered to do it, I wouldn't bother with that.

Yeah, we've got a website where we put up stuff to do with the cases. We'll put all of these cases that we've covered today. Obviously, everything's going to be in the show notes.

Is there anything else? Email us. Oh yeah, well, please. We'd love some more emails.

So that's a sinister South podcast at Gmail dot com. And lovely five star reviews, please. And thank you.

There we go. So yeah, that's that's kind of it. And so I suppose then happy Halloween.

Happy Halloween, you weirdos. Everyone who celebrates or Ochi, I can't pronounce this fucking Gaelic, but. You're a rubbish goth.

I know. But no, it's yeah, Samhain, that's Halloween, I think. Anyway, yeah, that sounds familiar.

Yeah, we'll do that too. If you're going to go out doing trick or treating and stuff, be safe. If there's anybody who like, I don't trust teenagers who trick or treat.

Yeah, yeah. But don't egg people. Don't don't be dicks.

No, I know this episode's really long and I don't have time to tell this story. But at some point, no, just at some point, remind me to tell you the story surrounding the fact that Richard has been egged three times in about 18 months. Oh, my God.

Yeah. OK, that's totally happening. That will be next week's episode.

That'll be the intro. How are you doing? Tell me about Richard's eggs. OK.

But yeah, if you are going trick or treating, be safe. Look after yourselves, look after your kids, all of that nonsense. Only go and knock on the doors where they've got pumpkins and shit outside.

Don't be annoying. Oh, don't knock on my door. I will be having all the lights off and just hiding.

I am going to be out trick or treating with my kids dressed as anxiety. Oh, I'm meant to be coming with you, aren't I? What am I meant to be? I think you're going to be ennui. Ennui.

Just walk around going. Feels about right. Exactly.

But yeah, we're going to be all the characters from Inside Out 2 because why not? And yeah. And by the way, all of those who are listening, just putting the word sexy in front of something does not a Halloween costume make. And on that note, she's tried with sexy anxiety and it's not working.

I think you'll find it's part of the reason that my husband stayed with me for so long. Anywho. We cut that out.

We love you. Thank you so much. Love you very much.

And Happy Halloween. Happy Halloween. Bye.