Lethal Love Triangle: The Chilling Case of Dina Sharpe

Episode 27!! We're heading back to Southwark! In this episode, we uncover the tragic story of Dina Sharpe, a South London woman whose love and trust were betrayed in the worst way. Dina believed she’d found a future with Stephen Singer, but instead found herself caught in his web of lies, deceit, and a love triangle gone horribly wrong. What begins as a volatile relationship spirals into a chillingly premeditated act—complete with a drugged dinner and a deadly fire. 

Join us as we navigate this heart breaking case, tracing the signs of control, manipulation, and the devastating loss of a well loved woman.

Sources used in this episode include: 
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/dina-shapes-only-mistake-was-falling-406311

https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/caretaker-jailed-for-life-after-killing-lover-with-spiked-omelette-6747690.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8147517.stm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jul/13/caretaker-jailed-spiked-omelette

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Also, follow us on Instagram @SinisterSouthPodcast for sneak peeks, behind-the-scenes content, and more cheeky banter, or www.sinistersouthpod.co.uk. Remember, every crime tells a story... and South is the best side of the river...

Produced and hosted by Hannah Williams & Rachel Baines
Mixed & edited by Purple Waves Sound (A.K.A Will)

Transcript

Dina Sharpe

Hello, I'm Rachel, I'm Hannah and this is Sinister South, a podcast about true crime in South London. Oh very succinct. She's succinct, she's taking it back to basics babes.

I like it. Just say what it does on the tin. Yeah but if we did that then it would have to be this is Sinister South, a podcast about true crime in South London and all of the other random bullshit that we decide to chitchat about.

So yeah fair. But I liked it. I liked it a lot.

I think it was good. How are you? Yeah I'm all right. I'm all right.

Getting through the year. Good. I know it's almost over.

I'm in equal parts excited and absolutely terrified. Oh I'm putting my tree up this weekend. Yeah no no no I'm not waiting any longer.

I don't care it's not December yet. I'm putting my tree up. Nice.

It's going up. I don't care. It's pretty.

I spend unreasonable amounts on baubles and you know a month is not long enough to look at them. This is very true. I'm doing it.

I don't care. No I'm here for it. I was more saying that like I'm excited by the end of the year because this year has been a weird one.

Yeah. And so I'm quite excited about it not being here anymore. But I'm also like I'm adamant it's it's March.

Yeah. What? Isn't that the thing people keep saying like oh it be say in 2025 2019 will be six years ago. Yeah.

Is that right? 2019. Yes of course it is. The thing I think was brilliant there was that you asked me you went is that right and you could see the panic on my face.

I decided to count six in my brain. I can't count to three in my brain. I don't understand it at all.

Don't get maths. But yeah I don't know about anybody else but I was a different person in 2019. Oh I think everybody in the world is a different person in 2019.

2020 was that one where you were just like oh oh shit. And nothing's been the same since. Very true.

Some things have been quite good for not being the same since. Yeah. But others maybe not so much.

Indeed. But yeah it's like when people turn around and go like oh yeah but like 2004 was 20 years ago. And I'm like well yeah obviously it was but also at the same time like fuck off.

I read a really it was ages ago now but there was this post. The writer the guy who wrote Rihanna's Umbrella. No SOS.

Okay. Was talking about the fact that like the second verse he just went absolutely fucking AWOL and was just like I'm just going to try and fit as many titles of 1980s hit songs. Oh shut up.

Every line in the second verse. Oh my god. Yeah.

That's that's a really good fact. It's good isn't it? But what disgusted me about it was the fact that it then said the song SOS which is 18 years old. Wow.

Like what? I'm sorry what? Uh yeah. Oh my gosh. You're reading all the song lyrics? Yep.

All the song titles yeah. I know it's cool right? That's cool. And then he was just like yeah I just I just went mad and then the guy he was talking to is like oh I didn't even know that and he's like yeah no one does.

Well now they do. Now they bloody do. Especially our Trevor's.

Yeah but yeah it's the end of the year. End of the year. Did I ask you how you are? You okay? I'm all right mate.

I'm all right. Can't complain. Could complain a lot but I'm choosing not to.

It's my new motto. Just yeah. Life's a dumpster fire.

We're just moving on. No genuinely I'm all right. Uh just as you say end of the year.

Getting all of that shit ready which is as I say in equal measure exciting and also really fucking annoying. There's nothing like preparing for Christmas when you are a parent because you get to have all the magic of like oh they're gonna be so excited and it's amazing. And then you also remember that you're the fucker that has to do it.

Yeah you're father Christmas bitch. Um so yeah it's fine. It's fine.

I feel the same way for Richard. Yeah fair. Fair.

And the fact he still believes is beautiful. I love it. I love that for him.

I'm so excited. Yeah that's about it. There you go.

Interesting first starts of the pod isn't it? Like hi Trevor you're still here. You're still listening. We're just gonna now go ah it's all right.

Yes this is good. Anyway. Any who.

I mean we were talking just before this about the incredible notes that I make for myself for things we could talk about uh on the podcast in the chatty bit. Eddie still playin' head. Don't know what that means.

Don't know who Eddie is. Brilliant. I love it.

Comedian brackets screenshot. Cool. Well done hun.

These are absolute blinders. Beauty standard. Women if you've got too much time keep up with beauty standards.

It wastes at least eight hours of a day. What? Is this a couple of bottles in? Mate yeah at least. Well I'm probably like no one else wants to talk to me anymore and I'm like oh it's fine I'll sit here and write notes for my I've got a podcast.

See I'm not gonna lie my favorite thing of uh that you've done in your notes section has to be when we were on the way back from Dublin. Not Dublin from Cork. And you wrote a load of notes about oh I'm gonna I'm gonna get really into marketing and I'm gonna yeah here's all these blogs that I'm gonna write and Hannah was absolutely fuck-faced um it was brilliant but some of the things that she came up with were just astounding.

Oh I'm seeing if I've still got it hang on uh because fuck it I would I'll read it out. I know there was a whole thing about like working with friends. Great money spreadsheet and good money.

There you go. Excellent. Oh dear I've got so many notes that are not just password protected but face id too.

Oh god. You need to know both that are just titled people's names. And it is a list of how you've wronged me.

I love it. Are you building your own kill list? Yeah. Have you listened to that podcast yet? I have.

It's good isn't it? Oh it's insane. It is it's really good. It's really good although yeah I do think the investigative journalist the host yeah is a little self-indulgent which I know is very rich.

But there was a lot like during it and he was like oh this is just really difficult. Yeah yeah yeah. It's like oh did you think that calling people and telling them that their loved ones want them to die is gonna be oh it's gonna be a walk in the park.

It was also very much like the way he was like oh well I was I was given no choice but to be involved. That's that's not how free will works um but but I did enjoy the the stories. Yeah yeah oh no it's brilliant.

It was good um but yeah that's cool. I don't know how into it I am. I don't know how if I've got any episodes left of it or not.

Oh okay. I kind of did I did the stupid thing uh where I listened along as they came out. Ah.

Which is just annoying because I'm so used to listening to like. And having a back catalogue. Yeah like and because I listen I listen to I listen.

I'm now Sean Connery. I listen I listen to many many podcasts. Um but because I listen to podcasts that are like I love a bit of cheese.

So like I will be listening to Snapped um or 48 Hours. Exactly. Or 48 Hours or Dateline.

No you know I can't be abiding by this. Which is all just they've literally just ripped the audio off of the documentary and stuck it and said oh it's a podcast. But uh because there are so many of them.

So you never get to the end. And when I was listening to Kill List um back when it came out which was probably what like October time. Yeah.

Um it was like oh well I've got three episodes great. And then it's oh no you have to be on Wondery Plus. So then I was having to wait like a week every time and I wasn't happy about it.

No. So cool story. Um shall I tell you shall I tell you an interesting story? Could you? Would that be I'm gonna just caveat quickly.

Go for it. Um Trevor's I've hurt my back. Oh she has.

So I can't well I can sit still but sometimes I just need to move. If you can hear in the background as Rachel's talking if you can hear me moving about and then going I haven't died. It's fine.

She's fine. I did give her the option to bow out. No no.

I'm a fighter. She is. I'm a brave little soldier.

Let's make me better. Uh we can't afford Christina. Yeah I can tell you a story though if you if you're interested.

I'd love that. Okay cool. So I am going to talk today.

So this case was basically it was first mentioned to me by a mutual acquaintance that we have and this person had a I'm not going to say their name because they actually had a personal connection with the victim and the perp. Will I guess? I don't think so. I mean I can do this and we could get Will to actually do a beep out if you want.

Yeah. Yeah. It's uh it's Oh.

Okay. Yeah she has a personal connection to both the victim and the perpetrator in that she worked with them for some time prior to this happening. Oh wow.

Uh so yeah and as I'm not going to publicly name her because she might not want that but also there are probably still some mutual connections out there and it's just better not to. Exactly. But this is just to say thank you to this person.

Yeah. Um for mentioning this story because it is mental. Okay.

Um. Oh I'm settling in as much as my body will allow. Strapping as much as you can mate.

Yeah. So today we are talking about a piece of **** man who couldn't keep it in his pants and so decided that the best way to deal with the situation was to brutally murder. Spoiler alert.

His girlfriend instead of just walking away. **** saying. So I know.

They're **** awful aren't they? Uh so this is the case of Dina Sharp who was killed by her then boyfriend Steven Singer in Southwark in 2008. So who was Dina Sharp? As with a lot of the cases that we cover in this podcast there isn't a huge amount of information about who Dina was outside of her relationship with Singer and I think we mentioned this in the last episode actually like where you did some of the shorter cases like sometimes they're just it seems really you you can't get a deep dive into who that person was and in some regards it's kind of like well yeah that makes sense because why would their life be public? And also some families will have fought to not have their lives made public. Exactly but it's just again because of Dateline and all the rest of it I just assume this is all out there and people can get hold of it and no.

Yeah so there isn't a huge amount of of who Dina was outside of her relationship with Singer so this is all kind of pieced together from descriptions that were made of her by her family and friends after she passed away. So Dina Sharp was born in 1969 and was described as a fun-loving caring and family-oriented person. She had very close bonds with her relatives and her cousin Deborah Judge spoke fondly about how the family had been looking forward to celebrating her 40th birthday.

Dina was described as someone who loved her family deeply and those who knew her said she was kind and outgoing. Dina began working as a cleaner at the City of London Academy School in Southwark in the early 2000s and it was here that she met Stephen Singer who worked as the school caretaker or janitor for our American friends. The couple got together in 2005 and were together for three years but this it wasn't completely harmonious it was described as being incredibly volatile and controlling.

So Dina's father David Sparks was really actually quite concerned about the relationship between Dina and Singer and he openly expressed his worries about the influence that Singer had on her to her and to other family members. He said I was concerned that Dina was going to get hurt emotionally as he kept making promises to her and then breaking them. David revealed after Dina's death that he had advised his daughter to walk away from Singer on multiple occasions but said she was in love she was in love with him and she trusted him despite the warning signs.

So problems began a year into the relationship when Dina wanted Singer to make a proper commitment to her and David said that's when the trouble started. Dina wanted to settle down with him. So Singer, I'm going to give you a little bit of info about him.

So apart from being a caretaker and a piece of shit he was also a 37 year old love rat. So he was, it's a little bit complicated, but he was already living with another woman whose name was Sandra Dodd and he'd been in a long-term relationship with her when he met and started dating Dina. Dina didn't know anything about Sandra until two months into the relationship when she was she'd basically already fallen for him and she would kind of she would talk to Singer about this and kind of you know express the fact that she wanted him to be with her and why was why was he doing this to both of them and all the rest of it and apparently Singer would regularly say to her like oh well it's because Sandra doesn't understand me I want to be with you I'm going to leave her all the usual bullshit that men like this say and like yeah he was he was kind of saying to her that he was going to leave Sandra Dodd to be with Dina permanently.

Of course. And then obviously like that didn't happen. David, Dina's dad, once again like there's quite a lot of stuff that David says.

He's done a big interview after the conviction against Spoiler Alert so there's quite a few quotes in this from David just because he's very articulate and kind of how he explains who Dina was and the sort of situation that she was in. But yeah he said Stephen was manipulating her by telling her to give him time and he would leave this other woman. Dina believed he was going to leave his partner as he told her that his future was with her.

So eventually in the summer of 2008, so they got together 2005, in 2008 Sandra, the long-term partner, she finds out about the ongoing affair between Singer and Dina so it's three years before she finds out. Oh god poor Sandra. I know and she rightly so throws him out of their shared home.

So she is like done with you fuck off bye bye and then despite this the stupid idiot man I've put here wanted to have his cake and eat it too and decided that while he could have either walked away from Dina to try and reconcile with Sandra or leave Sandra well alone and continue his relationship with Dina, he was going to attempt to rekindle the love triangle. Oh great. Lads let me tell you this never works out positively.

So while initially Dina was fairly upbeat about the affair coming to light and about Singer being kicked out because this was like you would be exactly what she wanted exactly she's now got him to herself that's what she wanted that's what he was always promising so why would he be upset that it's happened it's just made his life easier right and she assumed that this was the end of that relationship and the like emotional for a little while the their relationship got better right but it then very quickly went even more downhill. So at some point in July of 2008 Dina became aware that Singer was trying to reconcile with Sandra despite promising God she must have been heartbroken it just you just think like the roller coaster of that like yeah oh crap like he's got another partner but I love him he's gonna leave her he's gonna leave her he's gonna leave her she's gotten rid of him great oh fuck now he's now he's trying it's it's just yeah it's not it's not nice so this reconciliation with Sandra obviously led to multiple heated arguments between Dina and Singer including one particularly nasty one on the evening of the 1st of August 2008 when Dina found a text message from Singer to his ex-partner begging her to take him back so all of this emotional turmoil and you know relationship love triangle rubbish what actually happened the incident right so the day after this text message was found on the 2nd of August 2008 Singer purchased sleeping tablets and lighter fuel before heading to Dina's flat in Charlton House Southwark he had told her that he was going to be leaving his 12-year relationship with Sandra for good and that he would be moving in with her i.e. Dina he also asked Dina's younger sister who had been staying with her for a couple of nights when she would be leaving to make sure that Dina was alone when he arrived under the pretense of the fact that he needed to make it up with Dina and they needed space so obviously her sister has given them their course Singer prepared dinner for Dina under the pretense of making up for his behavior he served her a glass of wine and an omelette which were both laced with the ground up sleeping pills he had bought earlier in the day ensuring that Dina would ingest the drugs so the meal was part of a premeditated setup designed to completely incapacitate Dina and it's thought that the plan was that he would essentially give her an overdose so she would die through this fatal overdose but that isn't quite what happened and in the end it just rendered her unconscious yeah but i don't even think she was unconscious i think it incapacitated her more than more than anything so Singer sat with Dina to eat but he left his own portion untouched and when the drugs didn't take effect as quickly as he had anticipated an argument broke out again during which it is alleged that Singer punched Dina in the face and head multiple times Singer beat her back so badly that her skull was fractured and sorry trigger warning all sorts Singer punched Dina in the face and head multiple times and beat her so badly that her skull was fractured and her eye was pushed back into her skull causing severe brain damage after beating Dina Singer attempted to cover up his crime by setting the flat on fire pouring the lighter fluid he had purchased earlier that day around the room to destroy evidence and then leaving the scene Dina's father David said the biggest mistake Dina made was trusting him that night he told her to put her feet up and insisted he cooked dinner he watched her eat and never touched his own food he knew exactly what he was doing he was poisoning Dina at about midnight on the 3rd of August 2008 flames were seen coming from Dina's fourth fourth floor flat and a witness heard Dina screaming for help while holding a young boy in her arms what right so this is where it all gets a bit fucking mad what okay so i've called this in in reminiscent of uh true crime and cocktails young toddler at the scene side note so this is such a weird thing to kind of just tack on to this but there's really not a lot of information about this boy this child like who he was or why he was in the flat no one knows it doesn't seem to have been published anywhere i at one point thought that potentially it was like her nephew because her sister had been staying but but then it felt weird that why would the sister leave knowing that it was going to be a romantic reconciliation exactly like i don't it nowhere could i find out who was like the dad's been so vocal the dad would have mentioned that it was his grandchild exactly but no idea who this child is and no idea why he was in the flat either he's never been named and obviously his identity is protected for legal reasons yeah but what we don't know if he was a child of dina's it's never said if she had any children from previous relationships but if he's he's a toddler and they were together for three years so i could be i mean it could be but i don't just never mentioned maybe maybe on purpose maybe it was like and that's why maybe david doesn't mention it either maybe it could be i don't know it's just very odd but yeah so all we do know is that this child was 17 months old at the time of the attack on dina and he was in the flat with her oh my so that's that melissa whitehouse who lived on the floor below dina was standing on the balcony looking up at the burning building when she noticed a man in motorcycle leathers and a helmet exiting the block of flats oh this was singer who calmly walked towards his bike climbed on and rode away miss whitehouse is quoted as having yelled that evil bastard i bet he's done this and he's getting away with it so neighbors christian hansen robert gaffney and martin whitehouse tried to get into the flat to rescue dina and the young boy they were able to get to the 17 month old who was found in dina's bedroom with her body partially shielding him from the flames the boy sustained serious burns that covered 75 of his body and had to undergo extensive surgeries but survived in no small part to dina's attempts to protect him as she died judge kramer said he suffered burns to the majority of his body he had to have specialist treatment including skin grafts he will likely need intensive physiotherapy for the rest of his life wow oh that poor kid i know i know it's it's awful and this is the thing like it's almost as much as like it's none of our business but at the same time it's like who is he who is he yeah like for it to be that that's life-changing right and i mean i get that he's 17 months old and you know hopefully he will he'll grow up like he'll he'll that will just always be his existence right yeah so he won't know any different but it's yeah just yeah it's insane it's mad it's mad dina was found dead at the scene and a forensic examination concluded that she had actually died from brain damage due to injuries to her face and head and not as a result of the fire wow yeah oh my god yeah yeah so this is how savagely he beat her but she was able to kind of be compassionate enough to try in our last moments to try and get help and then look after this child yeah wow wow what a woman i know i know um so the pathologist said that dina's blood contained traces of sleeping pills which were also found in the glass and the omelette within the flat so the investigation um the investigation into dina sharpe's death by scotland yard's homicide and serious crime command was led by detective chief inspector carl metta and they quickly identified stephen singer as the prime suspect so neighbors were really crucial in the initial stages of the investigation and the men who managed to break into her flat to save the child and accept to save her were all highly commended by the judge during the trial so fire investigators found that the fire had been started deliberately with lighter fuel and it was used in multiple places within the bedroom and including under a staircase placed near the door to try and trap trap her in um forensic analysis of the scene combined with the witness testimonies and singer's suspicious actions including buying the sleeping pills and the lighter fluid provided enough evidence to charge him with murder attempted murder and arson so the trial of stephen singer took place at the old bailey in london in july 2009 so it's almost a year after the event and it painted a picture of a premeditated violent attack and absolute bucket loads of deceit and lies so the prosecution led by andrew monday qc laid out a meticulous and detailed case that argued singer had carefully planned the murder so monday explained to the jury about the sleeping tablets and the lighter fluid for the express purpose it was bought for the express purpose of killing dina and then he walked them through his plan to incapacitate her through the use of drugs and then described the violent attack when she was incapacitated yeah monday pointed out the deliberate actions of singer noting how he spiked both the wine and the food in an attempt to ensure his plan worked and had also planned how to cover his tracks by setting fire and trapping dina in the bedroom stephen singer denied the charges against him claiming that dina had been volatile and allegedly lunged at him with a knife during an argument he claimed that he had acted in self-defense well before that by buying the lighter fluid and the sleeping tablets yeah because he knew he knew she was going to come in with a knife yeah he claimed that he had acted in self-defense after dina had confronted him about his attempted reconciliation with sandra dodd despite these assertions the overwhelming evidence including singer's blatant premeditation severely undermined his defense so after a four-week trial the jury found singer guilty of murder attempted murder and arson judge stephen kramer delivered a scathing assessment of singer's actions calling him and i quote a controlling person who used aggression and deceit to manipulate the people in his life he described the murder as calculated and callous and sentenced singer to life imprisonment with a minimum term of 23 years along with a 20-year concurrent sentence for attempted murder of the 17-month-old boy and six years for arson which means that all three sentences are being carried out at the same time yeah um which at first i was a bit like no just like keep him in there for 46 years like have fun but apparently the reason why a sentence would be carried out so you have concurrent and consecutive yeah so the reason why you would get a sentence that is concurrent is because the the charges and what you've actually been convicted of are all related to one another or part of the same incident right so if you had so if you're a serial killer and you've killed six people over six years yeah you're gonna get consecutive because they're all separate incidents exactly so if singer had done this to dina and then gone to another flat and then tried to kill the child i don't know but but tried to hurt the child then that could that would probably have been a consecutive rather than a concurrent but because all three of those things happened at the same place at one time it's concurrent i see which to me just seems a bit like well i mean she's just yeah throw away the key but ideally but it's just like what's the point why why charge somebody and say right 23 years minimum for the murder of but isn't is there not something if like one part of it became unsafe so if if he appealed her the conviction on her and because of the self-defense or like just say everyone went mad yeah he won that appeal he still has true true attempted and and the arson the arson on top of that so it's not like even if he won the appeal it's not like he's getting out yeah yeah yeah maybe yeah i think well that sounds sensible because yeah otherwise i just sort of think like well why why bother but i suppose then it's also like well because there was still what happened to that boy was still horrific and he should still be punished for what he did absolutely to him as well but um but yeah so that was just a little bit of info so the trial and i think this is again understatement of the year but was the trial was incredibly difficult for dina's family of course her cousin deborah judge made an emotional statement in court saying to us dina dies a hero we will never understand why steven singer didn't just walk away she spoke of the life sentence of pain and loss that the family would now endure emphasizing how dina had been a loved member of the family who was taken far too soon and i quote dina was a daughter granddaughter aunt cousin and friend she was fun loving and carrying and caring and family oriented we were looking forward to celebrating her 40th birthday we never imagined we would be laying flowers on her grave on her 40th birthday we miss her so much it's horrible i know detective chief inspector carl meta who led the investigation described the case as absolutely horrific and stated that singer's level of callousness and brutality in both planning and executing the murder was shocking he noted the premeditation and the chilling calm with which singer carried out his plan even fleeing the scene on his motorcycle after setting the fire dina's dad david stated i've blamed myself time and time again for not being there to protect her something every father promises to do from the moment their child is born when the guilty verdict was announced i felt a huge weight lift from my shoulders at last he's going to be punished for his evil crime somehow we all have to get on with our lives but what happened to dina will never leave us i miss everything about her she used to call me five times a week and i'd give anything to hear her voice again dina wanted the ordinary things in life love marriage and a family steven has robbed her of all of that and accepting that is the hardest part of all i hope he never walks free i think about dina's last moments every day and the awful things he did are still vivid in my memory nobody deserves to go through that especially dina all she was guilty of was falling in love with the wrong man oh my god it's so sad and that is the story of dina sharp there's not a huge amount out there about it i was a bit worried that it might be a bit of a short one but one i thought it was an important one to talk about because of course all of these are important they're all important but i know what you mean like some of them like that yeah some of them there just is nothing apart from the crime and yeah like yeah it's really it was really hard like there was as i say like most of the info that i got was from people talking about dina yeah um rather than it being any sort of concrete proof trying to find out anything about i mean like mainly her dad like yeah her dad her dad is just incredible he is and he has spoken about her a lot and kind of tries to keep her her memory there i even tried to find out some more stuff about sandra um not that she kind of like well she's she's a complete victim in this exactly she's she's innocent in all of it again she was with an absolute prick yeah but that's not her fault um but yeah there's just there's not a huge amount out there but unfortunately he hasn't died in prison yet unfortunately not fuck's sake no he's still still kicking about but yeah and i just think that it's quite interesting that you know this is this is all because some bloke wants to have his cake and eat it too and i was just yeah and it's there like that always blows my mind anyway like if you just like i i don't understand the kind of i'm in love with two people narrative that something not necessarily not necessarily cases of this yeah horrifying nature but like in that kind of like a love triangle situation it's not you're not you're a manipulator and you're just really enjoying fucking with two people's lives at the same time yeah you don't love either of them no you're incapable no you love yourself yeah and you love the power and control that you've got exactly and it yeah it just it does blow my mind like just leave yeah if you want to be with someone else just leave or whatever like uh yeah the one thing that really struck me in this that i just think like beyond the premeditated because it was premeditated it was the the light flows in the to to entrap like to trap them yeah oh yeah no in his mind neither of them were getting out like that is next level evil that's so me like me use better words uh but it's that's just so i know awful and like absolutely no means of escape she's in a a block of flats there's it it's just what i kind of don't get it's a bit like um sean corey and karen not marnie that we did ages ago like i understand crimes of passion i understand like you've got into a fight and you know something has just snapped in you and you've acted impulsively and then fuck someone's and that's awful and horrific but it's it's an emotional logic in this again i am trying to find logic in it because i think that's the thing is it's just like i just don't understand what what had she done yeah like she's had to go at you because you are trying to get back with the woman that you told her you weren't getting back with yeah what gives you the right like in what warped mind do you think oh okay right would you know what love fuck you yeah i'm gonna go and get some tablets i'm gonna make you some food and i'm gonna then burn the flat down with this child this random kid that we don't know anything about also being there i i had to thought about the the kid yeah as well while we were while you were reading i don't think it could be his no because well if it was a girl potentially i'd be persuaded that it could be his yeah but a man like that like that with that much like yeah it would be really typical of it to be like if it was his son he'd have taken him right yes that's his prodigy yeah yeah i agree i also think the fact that deborah when deborah described her she called her like you know a granddaughter and then she didn't say mom she didn't say mom no so i don't necessarily think that the child was dina's but i just don't know where where the child came from where did she come from he come from sorry because like the only thing i can think of the only thing that makes sense in my head is that he is a nephew yeah and she did say aunt yeah yeah she did say aunt but i just sort of go like but why if i mean unless it was like because yeah because you just okay i can get out the flower i won't be at the flat anyway yeah yeah yeah well i'm doing this dean is actually looking after the yeah it could be 100 and dina's like oh it'll be fine he'll be asleep and we're having an omelet like yeah calm down that was the other thing that bumped me quite a lot when i was researching this was like obviously the rags um and the amount of people who kind of centered on like man kills woman with omelet and it's just like do you know what fuck off exactly oh just that oh the sensationalism of all that shit just grinds my gears yeah but i'm also safe in the knowledge that i would not be caught by an omelet no no you wouldn't be you wouldn't be cheese and eggs don't make sense it doesn't make any sense the only egg-based thing i'll eat i'd have been fucked by the wine though so you would have been fucked by the wine yeah yeah yeah but i just it's yeah it's that whole kind of and again with the the sensationalism and stuff it's that woman killed by by omelet like her name was her name was dina and also she wasn't killed by an omelet she was killed by a cunt yeah exactly the the the drugs incapacitated her enough to for her not to fight back and the fact that it's i just yeah i just can't i just and again i know it's stupid to try and get my head around something that obviously has no yeah like you can't can't explain away these people's actions like no you really can't it's um it's a bit yeah mad it's horrible but very well told babe thanks very well researched thank you you're very welcome it was a short one but that's okay sometimes true yeah and again just thanks to the the person who told us about this case will know that they told us about this case thank you my love and we will we will send a little note out to say thank you for bringing it to attention to our attention they did also volunteer to speak to me about the case and about the people and what they knew but again i was just a little bit wary about i one don't want to like out that person because i knew them and like all of the rest of it but yeah it's just uh it was also interesting to me that it's like they started their relationship it was a workplace romance yeah and stuff and then just sort of like how do you as someone who knows these people get your head around that yeah it's just i know must be horrific it's it's madness but yeah thank you very much for the suggestion um we hope with it well i hope that i've done it proud if that makes any sense we've done a good job with it please i need a little gold star thank you um but yeah so that's that's dina and the dickhead that is steven singer so he's also a very weird looking man is he yeah you know how we were talking about in johnny dark and stuff it was wiry oh yeah and then we were like wiry equals squirrel or rat like this is a very ratty man little rat man with a stupid goatee massage thing uh but yeah he's um he's obviously sees himself as god's gift thinks that he's it just amazes me what these fucking low value males think that they have the entitlement to i know it's forever gonna be that may you have the confidence for exactly like just but yeah also do love the fact that the neighbor is quoted as being like that evil bastard yes yes well fucking right i know but yeah and and kudos to the blokes who tried to save oh my god yeah yeah and how traumatic for them as well like just i'm often struck in like i often end up thinking like when a body is discovered and that thinking about the passerby thinking about that dog walker yeah thinking about that i'm thinking jesus like you might have absolutely nothing else to do with this crime like at all but that will never leave you yeah yeah yeah no you'll never not see that yeah yeah it's it's just how awful like how wide like the ripple effect out yeah of these horrific acts that we talk about oh yeah no it doesn't it doesn't just impact the immediate family and the victim does it it's there is this ripple effect it's just yeah but anyway so public service announcement trevor's men who if they've got another woman they're not going to leave no they never leave they're just and if they do it's never properly and if they do they'll you'll end up being the woman that he's promising some other woman he'll leave like just don't go there protect yourselves please okay and vice versa women are the same oh anyone yeah any person in any romantic scenario how you find a person is how you leave a person yeah and although i do feel like i should be careful saying all this i wasn't going to go there you keep your secrets um she's having a massive affair i've got seven men on the go um but no i i believe it in that if you're not like if you meet someone and something's not right at the very start yeah it's not going to be right at the end for the majority of the relationship and the end of the relationship however that end might come about yeah i'm not saying that every person that's in a love triangle ends up being a murderer yeah but but i'm sure again if i'm still waiting for people to tell me about how many people called trevor have committed murders i'm sure there'll be someone who'll be able to talk us through the percentage of love triangles that have ended in murder yeah yeah anyway yeah that's that's that so i suppose again if you are listening and you like us and you haven't left a five-star review what are you doing but no in all seriousness we we like the little we do and come and speak to us over on instagram rachel does a great job of doing all the actual work and then occasionally i remember it exists and pop pop in and reply to some comments and then leave again we're also trying to grow the instagram a bit because we think that we've seen our download figures and they're nice and they're lovely and we would just love it if you could come and hang out with us on the socials as well really that would be nice true um or you could email us if yes yes we like we like an email we like a dm feel free to but only nice things yeah only nice i don't know i'm feeling quite um robust at the moment feeling quite resilient come at me come at me see what happens to you i mean i mean yeah yeah see see what happens to you but also see what happens to hannah when she's not so robust and then starts reading but yeah nice nice things please because you know it is the season and all that exactly but yeah we do have a website as well where you can go and leave us a note and have a look at all the cases and we put info up on there and um stuff yeah tings yeah so i think that's it use your story next week better write one eh yeah you better but yeah i'm looking forward to it me too i'm sure it'll be brilliant are you are you also looking for in anticipation of what this case might be i can't wait i can't wait to find out see but the thing i find funny is that like with because because again like i my type a personality doesn't allow me to not have a to-do list i know there's a plan there's there is a plan there's tick boxes and everything guys i don't know who she thinks i am the tick boxes are just for me they're just my little bit of my little bit of fun to be like yep i have done it i've written it gold star it's your foreplay isn't it uh it is my foreplay it is a hundred percent it's like oh there we go nice little wig oh that was not that wasn't fun i got too excited oh we're immediately ending this and i'm leaving fuck you now no but i was gonna say we're coming to the end of season one which is we have uh cake for yeah season one yeah we're gonna have cake um shut up um but yeah we're coming to the end of season one and i've got season two episodes that i'm wanting to write but then i keep finding other cases that i'm like oh no that one oh that one but i like that that's what we were doing at the very beginning as well where we can have a list and all of that anyway we don't need to have this round of conversation uh stop trying to control me but if i don't it won't all go my way um right yeah we'll stop bothering now uh love you i love you too uh love you too trevor's and we'll see you later i love you goodbye merry christmas oh merry christmas goodbye