Sophie Lionnet: The girl they tried to erase

She travelled to London with dreams of adventure, language, and independence,  but instead, 21-year-old Sophie Lionnet found herself trapped in a house of delusion and cruelty. 

In this episode, we uncover the disturbing murder of a young French au pair at the hands of a South London couple who convinced themselves she was a spy sent by a former boyband star. With twisted obsession, manipulation, and a shared fantasy that spiralled into torture and murder, this is one of the most haunting domestic crimes in modern British history.

Also listen to how Rach became "that person" while dealing with a teenager with no headphones on a commuter train... 

Sources include:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/05/25/a-london-couples-shared-psychosis-led-to-the-torture-and-death-of-french-au-pair/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5709425/Heartbroken-father-French-nanny-Sophie-Lionnet-says-hes-haunted-murder.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48381455

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/26/london-couple-who-murdered-nanny-get-life-sentences

https://news.sky.com/story/murdered-french-nanny-had-a-chance-to-escape-11308390

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5709425/Heartbroken-father-French-nanny-Sophie-Lionnet-says-hes-haunted-murder.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/us/french-couple-get-life-in-jail-for-murdering-nanny-in-london-idUSKBN1JM1XL/#:~:text=Sabrina%20Kouider%2C%2035%2C%20and%20Ouissem,from%20Troyes%20in%20eastern%20France

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• 13:02 (Cont.) Sophie Lionnet: The girl they tried to erase

Transcript

Ep 17 - Sophie Lionet-001

Hello. Hi, I'm Rachel. I'm Hannah.

And this is the Sinister South podcast, a podcast all about the nefarious ongoings in the South of London. She's bringing back Succinct. I love it.

I love it. Do you know what? I think sometimes we can try and make it more over the top than it needs to be. And you know what? That's just, yes.

Overdramatic? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm offended. We think just, you're right.

Just bring it back to the classics, the simple, just say it how it is. True minimalists. True minimalists.

Yeah. Everybody has always said about us. They are completely non-dramatic minimalists, actually.

I swear to God, my poor cleaner. She must get talking about minimalism. I swear to God, my poor cleaner.

We're bringing that back. There we go. She's a woman of the people.

But my cleaner, every time she comes around, like she moves like the random trinkets that I've got just, and I think it must just be like, she's like, why the fuck? What is this? Where does this live? Why is this? What? It's the same. I have a cleaner also, so I can't say anything. But I think it's the same for her.

It's like all I have is trinkets and men's socks because Richard, I don't know, has to wear 14 pairs a day. That's the only way I can account for the quantity. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

We were talking about marriage in brackets general. Right. And I was saying, obviously, we'd have a prenup if we were to ever get married.

And he was like, what? I was like, yeah. He's like, why? And I was like, babe, I'm like a quarter owner of a tech business that might actually take off one day. I'm co-host.

I'm half of a podcast that might take off one day and generally work quite hard. I also have incredibly rich family members. It's like bitch needs protection.

He was like, so do I. I was like, oh, yeah, because I'm going to go for half your pop dolls and half your pants. I've always wanted 14,000 pairs of odd balls pants, actually. I'm coming for him.

That Mr Bean pop doll doesn't know what's going to hit it. He's got a great personality. That's what he brings to the table.

It's a bit like a perspective. It's a bit like when when Will and I first got together and it was like, I'm not exactly trying to be a gold digger, because if I am, I've completely misjudged this incorrectly. And he's now doing his second apprenticeship, so not much has changed.

Oh, no. What am I going to take in the divorce? Your lanyard? No, what I'd end up with knowing my luck. He'd do it just to spite me.

Like he would. He would be like, you know what? I would be so magnanimous. Here you go.

You can have every single piece of Warhammer and all of my magic together. We can meet up and bring our Warhammer and our pop dolls. Actually, that could be really useful.

We could do reenactments. That's how we animate the podcast. There we go.

We move them around. Oh, you know, when people play Risk and they've got that like broom thing where they think we could get one of them. Oh my God, let's do that.

Let's divorce them. I kind of want that now. OK, fine.

Let's do that. I am going to be represented by the Mr. Bean in his pajamas pop doll. I have a lot of wrestling ones.

If you want to pick one of them. I've got Will got given as a secret Santa present once. A Max the dog from the Grinch.

So I might just be that. You could be that. That's fine.

Why not? That's fine. It's either that or I can be a giant serpent thing on top of a tank with some little orc friends. I mean, that does sound more up your street.

You don't strike me as a dog person. Never have. Definitely more cats.

Definitely more cats. Definitely more serpents. I'll bring the snake trousers back.

Ah, the snake trousers. I mean, the weather is turning. It is turning.

It is prime snake trousers weather. And my hat with the moon. Oh, wow.

It's OK. At least you're not dressed like an actual poo today. What are you on about? I was walking along.

I was walking here and I was like, when I got dressed, in my head, I was like, tonal. Yeah. Tonal dressing is really in.

And like, that's really cool. And I was like, oh, yeah. I've got brown leather trousers on.

I've got this. OK, it's leopard. Like, whatever.

His hair was a healthy poo. And I caught a glimpse of myself and I was like, yep, head to toe brown. You're dressed like a turd.

This is not for you. This has not gone well. You've really fucked this.

Let's go navy next time, hun. Let's try pink even. I don't think head to toe in brown is what you should have gone with.

It's like, oh. Yeah. If it helps, I had not thought I'd poo at all.

Thanks, babe. You're always my biggest cheerleader. You've walked up to my house and I'm wearing my pajama bottoms, my slippers and a grey jumper, just properly like, I am not here for the weekend.

I would much rather please still be in bed. And it's very rude of you because it was your idea. I know, it was my idea.

It's not my fault. It's the children's fault. But anyway.

We were meant to have, it was meant to be a bit of a, come to the tiny shed, we'll record the podcast, but we'll also have some wine and we'll talk about the Patreon and we'll talk about sorting stuff out and we'll talk about work. Blah, blah, blah. We'll have a bit of a social gathering as well as a record.

Then it very much turned into, we're just recording and then we've got to go. You don't have to go. It's fine.

I've got a pint in a skull glass. In my squash, my skull squash glass. Yes, I have a pint of Guinness and it's delightful, thanks.

You can't stop me. To be fair, as I said to you, I would happily have a couple and I've got some ciders in the fridge, which I might bring in in a minute. It's just that I can't go heavy.

You know what I'm like. I know what you're like. It's because I've got to do stupid child-related things tomorrow for the Bank Holiday.

It's fine. I did what I always do in a social, in a lack of social plan crisis and text my sister. And enticed her with, I have some drama to tell you from the weekend.

I don't. Well, no, I can make stuff up. It's fine.

Fair, fair, fair. And then. She is a storyteller, guys.

She is a storyteller. I look forward to, because we are going to record too. We are.

I look forward to, well, you're telling me a story. So I shall drink this pint. Yes.

Nicely. And then I can get a cider and drink during yours. I'm really looking forward to like, when I'm two pints deep at the end of mine.

When I'm like, I'll tell you something else. I'll tell you what happened in this case as well. I'm so excited.

We've never recorded with a drink before. We haven't. And I feel like it should become a thing.

Because again, I can have one. I just can't go hard. Can't have two.

Anyway, how are you doing? What's been going on? I'm good, mate. I'm good. There's been a lot going on.

Lots of outings, which has been nice. Lots of meeting up with family and doing wholesome things, which has been good. I have a story that I was going to divulge, because it was, as I messaged you, the simultaneously most terrifying and hilarious thing that I have ever done.

Okay. So a couple of weeks ago, and I forgot to say this on the last episode, which is why it's been a couple of weeks ago. But I was on the train going to see a client uptown.

Oh yeah, this. And I was already a bit annoyed, because I had to go to see a client uptown, and I wanted to be- Wasn't it really hot that day as well, wasn't it? It was warm. I don't think it was super hot.

But yeah, it was just- I was just getting on public transport. I just don't want to do it. If it's not to go and do something fun, then like, meh.

Even that, I'm a bit resentful. Yeah, yeah. I do just think if I could have a driver, that would be lovely.

You've invited me to your birthday drinks in central London. When does my car arrive? Yeah, exactly. Let me know when the limo's outside.

But yeah, so I was on the train. I was already in a bit of a bad mood. Got on the train, and there was what I can only describe as a dickhead child on the train.

And what I say by dickhead child was, he was a teenager, but I'd say like early teen. Sort of 14 at their eldest sort of thing. And he was on the train with his mate, and they were listening to some bashment music off their phones.

Right. Annoying. It is annoying.

But it was like, it's fine. You just sort of, you sit down, and everyone was doing that thing where they go, but no one actually says anything. And then it got louder and louder and louder.

And the worst thing was that he was playing, it wasn't like it was just off his Spotify or something, through his tinny shit speakers on his phone. It was off of YouTube. So you would then randomly get adverts over a full fucking volume that no one cares about.

And you've got to sit through the length of the advert before it lets you go back to what you were bloody well watching. Anyway. So all this was happening, and I've got my headphones in, and I've got the noise cancelling on my headphones.

I was listening to some Sleep Token. Now they're not exactly the quietest of bands. I had my headphones, and I could still hear the music.

And I was like, I don't want to be a Karen. And I know we don't use that word, but I don't want to be that person. But at the same time, this is fucking infuriating.

Yeah, it's really irritating. It's really irritating. And I was in a bad mood.

So I decided to WhatsApp Will, and said to him, send me your most obnoxious black metal noise, please. Send me links. And he was like, why? Just send me stuff that I would not normally want to listen to.

Exactly, just stuff that I would normally go, Will, that is just too much. Turn it off. And so he sent me through a couple of links, one of them being a song by a band called Disembodied Tyrant.

And it's... Jaunty. It's very jaunty. It's very... Shanty vibes? Yeah, do you know what? In some weird realm, yes.

I'll get him to splice in a little bit. Oh God, no, don't. I'm going to get him to splice in a little bit.

Here you go, here's a bit. I'm going to lose people. We're not going to lose people, we're fine.

Well, I hope you enjoyed that. That is all of the time I'm allowing Will to use. Anyway, so he sent me this link, and then I decided that I was going, if this young dickhead child's headphones had broken, then so had mine.

And so, but I say this, because I am who I am intrinsically as a human, I did have to check with the other people on the four bank that I was with. I was like, look, I'm going to do something. It's going to be loud and annoying, but I'm going to try and prove a point.

And they were like, oh yeah, yeah, it's fine, it's fine. So I played this music very loudly, kept my headphones in my ears, but just turned off the Bluetooth, so that if anyone was to look around, they weren't necessarily sure that it was me. It's all the other goths on this train.

I'm not identifiable because I've got headphones in. All right, ostrich, calm down. Can't see you, you can't see me.

It was a bit like a two year old going, I'm hiding, putting their hands over their eyes. You can't see me, I can't see you. Invisible.

But anyway, so it played through the phone very loudly. And then to give the kid credit, like genuinely, because I was expecting it to either be like, like you wouldn't do anything. Yeah, exactly.

Which was part of the reasons why I left the headphones in. But to give him credit, he did go, all right, point taken. Good for him.

And then he turned it all the way down. Didn't turn it off, but he turned it all the way down and then got off at the next stop. But it was, I was just like, I don't know who the fuck I think I am.

Just woke up that day and chose violence. Yeah, that is very outlandish of you. It's very circa 2008.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is what I'm thinking. We were having that conversation about how the audacity that I used to have is that I would just talk to anyone I didn't care.

And I think it was just sort of like some little offshoot of that being like, I can sort this out. I'll fucking do it. And I will.

You can't stop me. I love that for you. It was fun.

And then I did kind of feel all like g'd up for the day. So yeah, it was amusing. Oh dear, I've got a horrible story for you.

I was going to say, I'm pretty sure today's is harrowing, isn't it? It's not pleasant. No. It's also not... I can't like wrap it up in sort of, you know, corporate espionage or anything like that.

It's just... Oh, I see what you mean. I was like, what is she talking about? Like, it's not like... Half a pint down and I've lost the fucking thread of this podcast. What are we here for? Who are you? Yeah, no, I can't even pretend that it's just like, oh, someone did their job shit.

And that's why this happened like the last one. Like, this is pure redonkulousness. Redonkulousness.

Okay. So as per usual, all of the sources will be in the show notes. This is one that actually I think quite a few people may have heard of already, because I know that there are some podcasts out there that have already covered it.

But it is interesting to some respect. Yeah. So I thought I'd do it as well.

There are trigger warnings everywhere. Just assume that anything that I say is going to... All of this is going to be horrific. It's going to be bad.

Everything that I'm about to say. We all need to buckle in. So yes.

So you might just cover if you just assume that it's all a trigger warning. Good luck us. Yes.

So as I say, there are other cases. Sorry, there are other podcasts that have covered this, including Casefile, UK True Crime and Crime Junkie. And they've all done really good episodes.

I've listened to all of them. They are really good. I listened to them purely because I didn't want to just plagiarize them.

And just essentially say the exact same story. So I've tried to drop in bits that are... But I mean, the case is the case. The story is... I've made up a bit so that it wasn't the same as Casefiles.

But yes. So if you have heard it before, then you can just listen to it again. When a 21-year-old woman left her small hometown in France to work as an au pair in London, she had one goal in mind, to build a better future for herself.

Sophie Leonet was described as a shy and sweet girl who loved looking after children. Moving in with a Southfields family seemed like the perfect step in her career. But behind the front door of that smart suburban home was a world of control, delusion and cruelty that Sophie couldn't have seen coming.

What followed was months of emotional and physical abuse, interrogations, starvation and manipulation, all fed by a paranoid fantasy created by her employer. In September of 2017, Sophie was murdered and her body burned in the back garden. This is not a story about a toxic couple, but one about power, coercion and how a vulnerable young woman was failed by everyone who should have seen the signs.

Who was Sophie? Sophie was born on 7th January 1996 in Troyes, a historic town in the Aube area of north-eastern France. I did not do very well in French, so imagine that all my pronunciations are incorrect. She grew up in a modest, close-knit family, even though her parents, Catherine d'Alavon and Patrick Lienais, had divorced during her childhood.

Sophie was known as being shy and reserved and was often described as kind-hearted and always ready to help others. Friends and relatives described her as timid, innocent and delicate, with a big heart and unlimited patience. Her father, Patrick, described her as so, so nurturing.

She liked children and animals. She was beloved by the children that she babysat in the local area and she adored animals and the cinema. On social media, she often shared her love of pets and she dreamed of one day working behind the camera as a film cinematographer.

Academically, Sophie left school in her mid-teens, but she yearned for adventure beyond her small hometown. Her family recalls that she had hoped to travel to improve her English and to build an independent life, ambitions that eventually led her to pursue work abroad as an au pair. Her father said that he had encouraged her to follow her dreams and in early 2016, just after her 20th birthday, she did just that and moved to London.

She had previously met the brother of a French woman named Sabrina Courdier, who was seeking help looking after her children and through this connection, Sophie accepted a position to live with Sabrina and her partner, Waseem Madouni, in their home in the Southfields neighbourhood of south-west London, near Wimbledon. At first glance, it probably seemed like a dream gig, the kind of set-up you might find in a glossy recruitment brochure for au pairs. London living, adorable kids and a family who, at least from the outside, seem cultured, creative and kind.

Sophie saw this as a brilliant opportunity to improve her English and experience a new culture and initially, things were going very well. Sophie was said to be devoted to the children in her care, often seen taking them to the park, the library and local shops. Neighbours frequently saw the polite, soft-spoken French girl out with the two little boys, describing Sophie as a rock for the children.

She seemed to be enjoying her new life at first, writing upbeat letters to her family about her time with the children. However, as time passed, she became increasingly isolated and miserable and a number of red flags began to emerge. But before we get into the horrors of this case, I think it's important to also understand the background of this mysterious Sabrina Courdier and her on-again, off-again partner, Waseem Maduni, who happened to be the ones who brought Sophie into their home and then destroyed her future.

Sabrina Courdier was born in Algeria in the early 1980s and grew up with her mother in Paris, France, but little is publicly documented about her father or any siblings that she might have had. As a teenager in Paris, Sabrina took a summer job working at a sweet stall in a fun fair and it was there at the age of 18 that she met Waseem Maduni, a French-Algerian man five years her senior. This encounter sparked an intense on-again, off-again relationship that lasted 17 years and was often described as dysfunctional and turbulent and marred by Courdier's bouts of irrational jealousy and violence.

Waseem Maduni, who was often known as Sam, again grew up in Paris, but there is other little public information about his family background or upbringing. He was relatively well-educated and he had earned a degree in economics and in the mid-2000s he moved into a promising career in finance, working as a financial analyst with the French bank Societe Generale and was then eventually relocated with Courdier to London for his job. However, in 2012 he was made redundant and attempted to start his own small business.

In 2016 he tried setting up a French crepe stall in Wimbledon, but he was unsuccessful in securing the funds needed to make it a permanent fixture after a trial period. By 2017 he was unemployed and relying partly on rental income from properties that he owned in Paris to get by. Courdier initially worked as a nanny, but over the years she tried various careers, including at one point being involved in, and I quote, a pyramid scheme for a telecommunications company.

You probably were part of that, weren't you? No, I don't get involved in the pyramid schemes. You love a cult. I love a cult, I do love a cult, that's very true.

Courdier later portrayed herself as a fashion designer and at the time of her arrest, spoilers, was claiming to be planning a fashion event in central London despite this being a complete fabrication. Oh wow, okay. Absolutely nothing to back it up whatsoever.

Courdier never really made much of prospects and was largely living on government benefits and financial handouts from a former partner long after their breakup. So this is a different guy to Waseem. Still paying her.

Still paying her. Still paying her, shouldn't have been paying her in the first place. Yeah, but somehow she's managed to persuade him to pay her long afterwards.

So Courdier spoke French as her first language and acquaintances in London knew her as the petite French woman with a very glamorous image. She was said to be well-dressed and held herself in a way which portrayed her as far better off than she was in reality. By her mid-30s, she'd had two children from previous relationships and those who knew her closely noted that her outward appearance covered up a very, very volatile personality and a life that was marked by instability including frequent changes in boyfriends, residences and employment.

Courdier was said to suffer from depression and an emotionally unstable or borderline personality disorder which contributed to a distorted view of the world. These conditions combined with her obsessive tendencies produced delusional beliefs and she would later be diagnosed with a delusional disorder which fuelled her behaviour. She'd also experienced severe emotional turmoil in the past with an ex-boyfriend alleging that she had attempted to end her own life multiple times during a particularly turbulent period.

Friends and former partners consistently described her as manipulative, volatile and prone to sudden rage. Another former boyfriend, a man called Anthony Francois was quoted as saying that Courdier was fickle and a lunatic which isn't the greatest language but who would lie, manipulate and even lash out at complete strangers grabbing women's hair just for looking at her. Yeah.

Maduni, by contrast, was described as quiet, passive and loyal to the point of submissiveness. This was seen most clearly in the way that Courdier treated him so she kept their relationship deliberately ambiguous and would publicly refer to him as a relative or a friend despite the two of them having an Islamic marriage certificate together. Oh, OK.

I didn't know that bit. Yeah, so they were very much together but then only when it suited her, really. Friends noted that Maduni had an unwavering loyalty to Courdier whenever she left him for another man he would wait in the wings for her to return.

Personality-wise, Maduni was mild-mannered and not known to have a history of violence or mental illness on his own in fact he showed no signs of mental health problems prior to the events of 2017, according to physicians. Some who encountered the couple sensed that Maduni was not entirely meek and mild a neighbour testified that although he wasn't overtly aggressive he could be forceful and physically intimidating due to his larger build hinting that his quiet demeanour masked a capacity for firmness. It also emerged that Maduni was trained in martial arts he was a black belt in Taekwondo however Courdier would belittle him constantly she accused him of always being lazy said that he never adequately supported the family financially especially after he lost his job and she resented the time he dedicated to work when he was employed complaining that when he had to work So he couldn't win? He really couldn't win You're too lazy or you're working too much There's no in-between and nothing was happy there was no happy medium Now I'm going to go on a little bit of a side quest and this is going to take us to the boy band, Boyzone Sorry, you've just taken a swig of Guinness Perfect Irish compendium Mouthful of Guinness, someone says Boyzone I'm like, it's time! Get the kelly! Let's go! Honestly, you heard me right I said Boyzone That's what we're about to talk about Let's go One of the most pivotal moments in Sabrina Courdier's life was her romance and subsequent obsession with Mark Walton, a former musician Walton had been a founding member of the Irish boy band Boyzone helping to start the group in the early 90s but leaving after about a year He later went on to become a very successful music producer in his own right So Courdier's chance encounter with Walton occurred in London in September of 2011 when she was in her late 20s and he was in his mid-30s They met at a bank in Notting Hill when Walton spotted Courdier and struck by her beauty, apparently asked a bank manager to introduce them Jesus! Who knows the bank manager? Is this from Mary Poppins? Me and the bank manager go back years! Introduce me! It's so bizarre Obviously that would have been an Irish accent could I have done mine? Yeah, it's bizarre but apparently the bank manager was able to introduce them and then their relationship moved very quickly with Walton recalling quote I fell head over heels in love And then they soon moved into her London flat in Bayswater So during the good times Walton found Sabrina to be gentle, sweet and loving and he was deeply infatuated with her at first However, the relationship lasted only until 2013 and throughout it was anything but stable Right Turbulent is how Mark Walton described those two years with Courdier He told the Old Bailey Court during her trial that it was, and I quote probably the most turbulent relationship I've ever been in It was marked by Courdier's sudden mood swings and frightening outbursts And he knew Louis Walsh Yeah, exactly Sabrina would often flip with little warning She'd get very angry, very loud and just not care where we were She would go crazy over something, anything It could be the most trivial thing in the world These explosive episodes would happen in public causing significant scenes And Walton also noted that Sabrina was the more controlling partner She tried to isolate him and was exceedingly jealous any time Walton was seen talking to a woman regardless of who they were They could be the waitress in the cafe that they were sitting in It didn't matter She would, yeah, go mad And during their time together Courdier hired and fired multiple nannies for her children accusing them of misconduct such as stealing or being overly interested in Walton I was going to say, it's just that Yeah, yeah, yeah When in reality there was absolutely no evidence of that Some of them were friendly and I'm a friendly guy but it was nothing more than that Walton explained illustrating how Courdier's jealousy extended even to her own domestic staff I'm not going to defend her because I know what's coming But it's not like men haven't slept with the nanny before No It's not like that's not a very well-worn trope True, true But I don't know that it's It sounds like she is overly paranoid I get it Again, I'm not going to defend her because I know what she fucking does next But at the same time I can't miss an opportunity to have a dig at men Fair Do you know what? I am not going to be one to stand in your way I've had a pint Walton recalled that Courdier exhibited a manipulative and controlling nature with a calculated streak and could be verbally and physically abusive towards him On one occasion she even hid cameras in his home to spy on him suspecting infidelity She baselessly accused Walton of things like sleeping with her friends or even male prostitutes I shouldn't use that word It's male sex workers Thank you Facing this constant paranoia and abuse Walton eventually decided to end the relationship in mid-2013 saying that he had just had enough of her extreme jealousy and volatility But their breakup did very little to calm Courdier's obsession with him In fact, it triggered what prosecutors later called a five-year war that Courdier waged against Walton Even after Walton moved abroad he left the UK for Los Angeles in 2015 Sabrina's fixation only grew She repeatedly tried to tarnish his name and concocted bizarre accusations against him She claimed, among other things that he was a paedophile that he practiced black magic and even that he had sexually abused her pet cat Wow Now, none of these claims had any truth whatsoever Oh my god, jeez But she went so far as to even set up a fake Facebook profile in 2015 where she publicly and falsely accused him of paedophilia She also told people that Walton had hired a helicopter to spy on her and her children The most subtle of spying techniques Exactly But yeah, I feel like it's important to say that all of this was false There is absolutely no evidence that any of this was correct or true by anybody So yeah During this period I'm opening another can now That's fine, I'll allow you to This is the bit where it gets mental Even though she's done all of this ridiculous stuff to this poor man with literally no evidence none of it was true Paradoxically he was still financially supporting her Oh, was it him? So no, I think there was multiple Jesus Yeah So he was He sent her Well, so he testifies in court that he sent her money to help pay for her rent on the flat in Southfields because he did this out of He says he did it because he was concerned for the children and that he didn't want them to have to move again and all the rest of it So he was helping in order to help the kids more than it was to help her I suppose that makes more sense Can I just say, like I don't know if you'll come to this You might want to tell me to shut up But like She's had Two kids by two different dads As far as I'm aware As far as we know And then become completely obsessed to the point of madness with a founding member of Boys' Zone Yep And all the while Yep This guy's just like But I love you I'll see you in a minute Maduni is always there Just on the sidelines Just waiting Yep And I can't Like I barely get Richard to text me back Yeah Like something's gone wrong Maybe it's because I keep dressing like a poo But something's gone wrong Maybe it's what Bailey Sarian says it Oh maybe she's got beer flavoured nipples Something I don't know what it is Oh dear But yes So while Walton was financially supporting her as he said it was mainly due to concern for the children's welfare But despite this he did not keep tabs on her life at all Like they didn't maintain a relationship I think it must have been a sort of it's a direct debit This is enough that goes out and that's all I'm doing my thing for the kids That's it I don't actually want anything to do with you Exactly So in fact Walton was completely unaware that Cudier had hired a new au pair in 2016 and he'd never even heard the name Sophie Leone until contacted by British police Wow So back to Sophie We've set the scene a bit So it's not entirely clear when the abuse started but by mid 2017 roughly a year after she had arrived in London Sophie was telling her mother in letters that she was tired and wanted to return to France but felt that she couldn't leave Neighbours started to notice Sophie's growing fragility noting that she had become painfully thin quiet to the point of invisible and always looking exhausted One local shopkeeper who saw her almost every day at the local chip shop later recalled she used to come in almost every day looking so sad so thin she'd sit and eat like she hadn't had a meal in days Once she told me they beat me at home I asked if she'd told anyone and she just shook her head she looked scared so scared Why didn't you do anything? I would question why you didn't go and do anything about it but there we go Behind the closed doors of that seemingly ordinary house on Wimbledon Park Road Sophie was living an absolute nightmare It started subtly with Cudier and Maduni exploiting Sophie She had expected to be treated like most au pairs to be exposed to a cultural exchange a bit of childcare in return for board meals pocket money and time to explore the city That's what she'd been promised That's what her parents believed she was walking into But from the very beginning Cudier and Maduni saw her as free labour They paid her £50 a month Oh fuck me barely enough for a train pass let alone food or essentials Some months she wasn't paid at all There were no formal contracts no days off no end of shift She lived and worked in that house day and night at their mercy and this mercy was in very short supply She was a slave Soon after arriving Sophie's phone was taken away followed by her passport which meant even if she had felt able to she couldn't go home Then came the isolation She wasn't allowed to socialise Other au pairs in the area would later say they rarely saw her and when they did she barely spoke She was starved physically and emotionally had no freedom no connection to the outside world and no idea of how to get out Cudier kept Sophie under firm psychological control She would insult her relentlessly calling her lazy worthless and stupid It's been stated that some professionals believe that as Sophie was young and fairly naive she may have assumed this treatment was normal or deserved However she was said to have written in her diary about being called a whore and a bitch and questioning what she had done wrong to receive such treatment from the family that she was caring for God, that's so sad In July 2017 just a few months before the incident that I'm desperately trying to avoid talking about because it's horrific Sophie fled the house for two nights She went to stay with a friend believed to be another French au pair but their identity has never been publicly disclosed and during this brief time away Sophie confided that she was deeply unhappy at the house She was tired scared and desperate to go home to France It's alleged that she may have been physically hurt as well as psychologically harmed at this point but it's said that she did not fully disclose the extent of the abuse to her friend Instead she downplayed what was happening and told her friend that it wasn't important enough to go to the police or to call her parents about and insisted that she just needed space to breathe While it's obvious that at this point Sophie was beginning to realise that what she was experiencing wasn't normal she was under the psychological control of QDA who managed to track her down It's not clear how exactly but once she did know where Sophie was she went into damage control mode She became charming apologetic kind She told Sophie there had been a misunderstanding that things had just gotten stressful that she was under pressure and that she didn't mean to be so harsh Most importantly she promised Sophie that she would finally pay her what was owed By then Sophie had been working for months for almost nothing She was owed hundreds in back pay QDA held that promise of payment like a lifeline knowing that Sophie had absolutely no other financial options She's even said to have told Sophie once you're paid you can go home to France I promise So Sophie returned Once she was back in the home the real torment began QDA's obsession over ex-Boyzone member Mark Walton was growing out of control QDA had also experienced delusions about their relationship She became convinced despite there being absolutely no evidence once again to support her claims that Walton was spying on her and her children that he had hacked her phone and computer and that he had paid people to infiltrate the safe space And in her increasingly paranoid mind Sophie was one of those people QDA became fixated on the idea that Sophie had been recruited by Walton to act as a spy that Sophie was helping him gain access to the family's private life that she was drugging the household letting him sneak in and that she was working against them from the inside This delusion marked a dramatic escalation in the way that Sophie was treated became full-blown psychological warfare Sophie was no longer just the nanny she was the enemy And over the course of 12 agonising days QDA and Maduni subjected her to a campaign of torture in their own home under the belief that she was some kind of undercover agent a traitor a conspirator Once QDA's suspicion of Sophie took root the couple began a calculated campaign to break the young woman's will and extract a confession I use very big bunny ears on that one Over a period of several weeks in the late summer of 2017 Sophie was repeatedly interrogated threatened and assaulted The court later uncovered over 8 hours of harrowing audio and video recordings on the defendant's phones documenting these interrogations and in these recordings QDA can be heard screaming accusations and questions at the frightened Sophie while Maduni also participates by asking questions or making intimidating comparisons at one point likening Sophie to a Nazi collaborator for her supposed betrayal Their methods of abuse were torturous Sophie was starved She was waterboarded in the bathtub in an attempt to terrorise her into compliance and on at least one occasion they actually held her head underwater until she thought she might drown We know this because she wrote about it in a diary They beat her regularly Evidence showed that Sophie was slapped, hit with electrical cables and beaten so severely that by the end she had 5 fractured ribs a cracked breastbone and a broken jaw Oh my Jesus Christ They also verbally degraded her with QDA hurling insults at her calling her a whore a bitch and a slut Sophie was told she was worse than a murderer and was accused of drugging the children QDA demanded that Sophie confess to being Walton's agent She and Maduni forced Sophie to rehearse false statements and in one of the recordings found after her death a frail and emaciated Sophie can be seen on camera barely audible and utterly broken finally saying what her tormentors wanted to hear This video was intended to be a piece of evidence in QDA's vendetta QDA and Maduni stated that once they got the confession on tape they intended to hand it over to the police as proof of Walton's crimes but it was suggested that the more likely motive was revenge and possible extortion They may have intended to send the recording to Mark Walton in hopes of coercing more money from the wealthy music producer or to simply gloat and psychologically punish him Who knows Tragically the situation escalated beyond what even Sabrina and Waseem may have initially planned On September the 18th or 19th it's not known during one of the violent interrogation sessions in the bathroom Sophie Leone died The exact cause of death could not be determined due to the condition of her remains but evidence strongly suggested she was killed during water torture or by the cumulative effect of beatings and drowning in the bathtub After realising Sophie was dead the couple immediately set about trying to destroy evidence and concoct a cover story In a gruesome attempt to hide their crime Cudier and Maduni carried Sophie's lifeless body to their garden and set it alight on September the 20th 2017 Neighbours noticed the foul-smelling smoke and when firefighters arrived they were called by concerned residents they found Waseem Maduni tending the flames Once the blaze was doused firefighter Thomas Hunt's eyes zeroed in on the ashes Clothing, jewellery and a human nose and fingers appeared to be in the smoking pile Oh God Why are you burning a body? the disturbed firefighter asked Maduni Hunt would later testify It's a sheep Maduni replied Bollocks the firefighter replied Later Hunt would tell a court Maduni then insisted the remains were from an animal but that a look of resignation crossed his face as if to say I know the game's up Right, yeah I've been caught The firefighters then called the police and officers from the Met arrived on the scene almost immediately What they found was deeply disturbing not just a burnt body but a calm collected couple who showed no signs of distress no panic no remorse The remains were so badly charred that they couldn't even confirm at first whether the body was male or female Sophie had been reduced to a silhouette of bone and ash The garden was sealed off and the house became a crime scene And inside that house in drawers phones computers and notebooks detectives began piecing together a story that was more horrifying than any of them could have imagined The first breakthrough came when officers seized and examined Cudier and Maduni's mobile phones On them they discovered over 8 hours of recorded footage of Sophie soaking wet exhausted sitting on the floor with Cudier screaming and Maduni pacing the room and lecturing her about betrayal The police also found signs of burnt clothing and personal items a bathtub consistent with water torture or forced drowning makeshift restraints and a notebook that contained rambling obsessive notes by Cudier documenting her twisted beliefs about Mark Walton and Sophie's betrayal Within 48 hours of the discovery both Sabrina Cudier and Waseem Maduni were arrested on suspicion of murder and from the start they turned on each other Maduni told police he hadn't killed Sophie that he wasn't responsible that Cudier had gone too far in his words Neighbours reported seeing him leave the house for long walks often during the height of Sophie's mistreatment He would disappear for hours at a time sometimes while the screaming continued behind closed doors and later when questioned Maduni admitted that he would go out when Cudier's rage became too much or when things got too intense But he didn't call for help Go and look after yourself mate Coward He didn't call for help He didn't stop it He walked and then he came home This detail that he chose to leave rather than intervene painted a chilling picture of a man who may not have been the aggressor but was far from innocent Cudier said it was Maduni who delivered the fatal blow that she hadn't meant for Sophie to die she had just wanted a confession Both of them admitted to burning the body a charge of perverting the course of justice But when it came to the murder itself they pointed fingers Neither of them showed any genuine remorse not for Sophie and not for the pain that they had caused her family Detectives realised early on that this wasn't just a case of violence it was a case of shared delusion a kind of psychological feedback loop what psychologists would later call folie a deux madness shared by two and we've done cases on this before Yeah and I find folie a deux I can't say it but I blame the Guinness but I find it fascinating like it's one of my biggest like issues is that the case of the twins on the motorway is in South London I wish we could cover it because it's fascinating It is insane that one It's chilling It's terrifying Things like that fucking freak me out It is that idea but like with twins it's almost like I can kind of almost understand it because especially if you're identical twins there's like you shared you've got shared DNA you've got like I can kind of see how if one of you goes then the other one would as well the concept of someone just being able to manipulate you into their delusion Yeah is fucking mental like it's just yeah it's bizarre the whole thing kind of that whole concept is like It's madness It's fascinating This rare psychiatric syndrome occurs when a delusional belief is transmitted from one individual to another leading both to share the same false convictions Cudier's obsession with Mark Walton her paranoia her belief he was spying on her and trying to destroy her life had become so consuming that Maduni started believing it too They weren't just abusers they were conspiracists living in a fantasy of their own making where Sophie was no longer a person but a threat This made the case all the more chilling because the cruelty they inflicted on Sophie wasn't random it was planned filmed and justified in their own twisted reality With their forensic evidence digital recordings witness testimonies from neighbours and local shopkeepers and statements from Sophie's family the police built a watertight case They also reached out to Mark Walton who flew in from Los Angeles to give a statement and later to testify in court He had never even met Sophie but found himself at the centre of this tragic spiral of delusion It was a case that shocked even the most experienced detectives D.I. Dominica Cantino the senior investigating officer would later say We will never know the full extent of the horrors Sophie had to endure What we do know is that she was subjected to sustained abuse brutal beatings and psychological torture by people that she trusted The case was sent to the Crown Prosecution Service and in March of 2018 it went to trial at the Old Bailey Both Cudier and Maduni were charged with murder and perverting the course of justice The trial would last nearly two months with both defendants aggressively blaming the other Cudier told the jury that Maduni had gone too far that she'd left Sophie alone with him and come back to find her unconscious Maduni meanwhile insisted that Cudier was the driving force that he had been manipulated and controlled and made to believe that Sophie was a spy because Sabrina made him believe it But he claimed he had never meant for Sophie to die and that Sabrina was the one who held her under in the bath Prosecutor Richard Horwell K.C. stood before the court and laid it out plainly He said Sophie was subjected to horrific torture and abuse fuelled by baseless irrational hatred He called the behaviour of the two unfathomable driven by a shared fantasy and a complete loss of reason He described how Sophie had been broken both physically and mentally over a period of days starved beaten humiliated and drowned Judge Nicholas Hilliard K.C. told the court this was a case of a grotesque overreaction based on groundless suspicions You, Sabrina Cudier subjected her to a deluded campaign of cruelty which culminated in death and an attempt to erase her body He added this was prolonged torture it was sustained and designed to break her will carried out with chilling determination One of the most surreal moments of the trial came when Mark Walton flew in from Los Angeles to testify He sat in the witness box and calmly quietly refuted every single allegation made against him Can you imagine having to do that? the like he's he's completely innocent right here but that the guilt he must feel about how his name how involved his name was in everything that happened to her It's just horrible horrible I feel very sorry for him He had never met Sophie He had never been to the house He had never orchestrated anything He described his two year relationship with Cudier as the most turbulent of my life and said she had been obsessed with him ever since they broke up The courtroom listened as Walton described how Cudier would call him 30-40 times a day accuse him of wild things including controlling animals with black magic and how she had set up that fake Facebook profile claiming he was a paedophile When asked if he'd ever heard of Sophie Léonere before her death Walton simply said no I had no idea who she was I'd never heard her name until the police contacted me After weeks of graphic evidence and psychological analysis the jury returned their verdicts in May of 2018 and both Sabrina Cudier and Waseem Maduni were found guilty of murder In sentencing them to life imprisonment Judge Hilliard said this was a murder which involved deliberate sustained and increasingly cruel behaviour He called it a campaign of torture driven by a warped fantasy Cudier and Maduni were sentenced to serve a minimum of 30 years in prison before being eligible for parole Outside the court Sophie's family spoke to reporters Her mother Catherine said Sophie was such a kind gentle soul She wanted to learn English to see the world She died alone afraid and in pain and we will never recover from this loss and as of March 2025 both remained incarcerated in the UK serving their sentences Sophie Leonet was a young woman with dreams of exploring the world improving her English and building a brighter future Her life was tragically cut short by the very individuals who were entrusted with her care May the end May Yes Jeez So that is the story of Sophie Leonet It's just so fucking heart-breaking It really is and again it's another one of those cases though where it's like Sophie I feel like Sophie's lost in her own death Yeah It's very much because of the absolute batshit stuff around Sabrina and Mark Walton through absolutely no fault of his own Yeah She does get kind of she feels a bit of a footnote in it all which is really really sad because she was a young woman who had the rest of her life ahead of her and obviously cared for the children that she was looking after Yeah yeah definitely and that's the bit I don't get like you doing all of this with your kids in the house In the house I was thinking of that I was thinking of that earlier when you were talking I was like they're just there Yeah yeah yeah and they can obviously see like children children are very astute in a lot of ways and they notice shit of course and can you imagine like having to you're witnessing this happen to somebody who's looking after you and by all accounts did a good job of looking after you and your mother like I mean But you also as the child you've got a relationship with this person that is diminishing in front of your eyes yeah yeah like before the final incident like the being starved that you know this this person you love this person you trust this person that looks after you that's a caregiver is is just slowly disappearing slowly disappearing in front of your eyes yeah how traumatising for the kids and also just imagine like all of it in general how fucking traumatising well having her as a mother Christ but also like it goes so far like when you were saying about the fire in particular but the neighbours going what's that horrible smell never fucking realising what you've smelled yeah yeah Jesus Christ like no one should know what that smells like no absolutely not literally funeral directors people who work in crematoriums should be the only people that know what that smells like and even then I feel like they probably wouldn't know what it smells like because of the way ventilation exactly it all happens it's just yeah it is something this is one of those cases where it is just it's something out of a horror film it is horrible it's horrible and I'm sure look there is a part of me that almost wants to go down the route of you know at what point do the delusions mean that your capability to understand what you're doing gets compromised but see my and this goes back to what we were saying when we spoke about Stockholm Strangler because and even last week's episode right there's mental health and there's a murder yeah we've got that again this week the difference between this case and last week the difference between Stockholm Strangler and the Clarence children all of those are somebody's mental health driving them to do something awful in the case of the Stockholm Strangler I feel like yes he was incredibly unwell but he chose to break into houses he found it wasn't like he was in a room there is an intention and the bit for me with this case is where she persuades Sophie to come back yeah yeah yeah she is fully in control of what she's doing and I don't think I don't think there was ever a point where she thought she wasn't going to continue abusing Sophie no and the delusion about why yeah maybe that's like you know and I think that yeah there is something that says she was completely deluded she was diagnosed with a delusional psychological disorder but she didn't have to torture her because of it she could have fired her she could have said get out of my house yeah yeah yeah she the fact that she chose to go down the path of starvation exploitation torture murder none of those are the responses to her delusions no they are their choices aren't they they are I mean their decisions to me they feel like decisions anyway yeah I think I agree with you and then with Maduni like the man she had every single bit of control over that man I don't think that gives him an out no at all your cowardice does not give you an excuse no but the fact that he was pulled along with it yeah as we say it's fascinating if you take the horror out of it and chilling but it is it's just he knew it was wrong that's why he would walk away but he could and he could have stopped it he could have gone and got somebody involved he could have gone to the police and he didn't and he didn't and look the things that are going through my head are like what always happens with me not trying to proportion blame but I'm like how is someone being starved being beaten being waterboarded in a flat and you're telling me that no neighbour heard anything yeah the shopkeeper come for me when you think I ring 999 too quickly but look no one's being waterboarded on my watch exactly but it's also the shopkeeper someone has an aggressive bath and I'm phoning in I can't remember the name of the documentary but I know I've seen a documentary about this case as well it's not just the podcast I've listened to because I can see the chip shop owner in my mind's eye but I couldn't find it when I was doing the research it's one of those it's not the real man hunter it's not him that we love no it's not Colin Sutton Colin we love Colin it's one like that though it's one of a series where she's an episode of yeah and I couldn't find it when I was researching this but in it there is and this is not again it's not to blame there's no one to blame but the two people that murdered someone exactly but the chip shop owner you watch him in the documentary and he does he is distraught that must eat him up he's distraught but you do go someone's told you that they're being beaten like just even if it's an anonymous of the friend yeah like I know like you must be heartbroken but at what point was it surely you could see your friend's not okay yeah and regardless of what this psychopath saying to her yeah and manipulating her into coming back at what point do you go this is it right if someone could tell me yeah what the the line is between someone like me who would ring the police because someone breathed a funny way and inaction or inertia whatever you want to call it like what's where's the line yeah I don't know because like I don't know and it's so difficult because I mean you have to tell me that one of your clients has sent you a funny email and I'm like right that's it that's enough no one could abuse you on my watch oh well no and this is why I love you it's because I'm the abuser it's fine shut up and do the podcast I'm gonna blink five times um I've told you about blinking I know it's not a visual medium anyway so it's fine um just morse code it it's fine no no no but yeah no it is so hard because I know that I don't know if it is a I think I said this last week I think I don't know if it's London is such a transient place and there's you know people move all the time but you would think that like this part of Wimbledon like Southfields it's not a deprived no no no part of London it's a very nice part of South London it's I don't think that there's loads of people moving in it's not a student part of town or anything like that and if you see au pairs this is the other thing like with au pairs and nannies there are communities that they will become recognisable in like you'll do the school runs you'll do the like the the kids clubs and all of that so she must have been to be to have been seen is what I know that like the last sort of couple of weeks of her life she was increasingly isolated in the house but up until that point these people will have seen it and it just takes one person to just I don't even know where would you call would it be social services would it be the police would it where is it I think at least logging a concern and I know that the police can't like you couldn't any time you see someone lose a shit tonne of weight you can't ring the police just in case but like there is losing weight and then there's like obviously even if the person might just be anorexic there is something to say like hang on something's not right here and again I know like and they can't investigate every single one and like they can't do welfare checks every single like they're stretched enough as it is and like we don't have time to go into all of that but I don't I suppose my thing is like I would I know what I'm like how harsh I am on myself and if I if there was ever a scenario where I overlooked something or didn't act when I should've and knew I could've I'd never forgive myself ever yeah I think my issue is that I'm just not particularly observant so it's like the idea of like someone someone just just like seeing somebody and then something happening to I couldn't tell you that I'd seen that person I'm I mean for God's sake when we got mugged I came over going sorry what's going on here you came up to me what's happening we're being mugged babe give me your handbag just completely oblivious but I suppose that again like I there are people at the school gates I don't even go to the school gates every day of the week because I have a childminder but I know I know the people that I see a member of my family on their way to work every day drives past your kids school yeah and she recognises and she said to me the other day does Rachel know this person like she just sees her in the car yeah every day walking past where she's normally in traffic yeah and like she said to me like oh ask Rachel she knows this woman that looks like this yeah because I saw her the other day and she didn't look right or like I can't remember what it was I text you yeah you did who is this person and yeah are they okay yeah yeah yeah exactly and that's just the habit of seeing someone in yeah it's just people watching when you're going about your daily life exactly but there is a thing of like I wouldn't know I might not know the name of the person but I would know them by sight yeah yeah yeah I would notice if suddenly and I think that like the weight loss thing is like an interesting one because as you say you can't like report in people who are losing weight or you know they might be unwell or whatever but look at these guys I'm just kidding but but coupled with you weight loss when it's a positive thing is usually not accompanied by a complete and utter wanting to disappear I always like I can kind of speak from relatively new experience like weight loss in a positive controlled healthy way if anything makes your personality bigger I've never been more confident in my life I've never been more outspoken in my life and I'm a extroverted outspoken person by nature yeah yeah yeah and but it's definitely given me a new a new lease of confidence yeah so I'm not like yeah you'd recognize the you'd like to think you would recognize the downtrodden yeah nature of someone that's losing weight because of abuse yeah exactly you would hope I mean it's all just it's all just so sad and for her parents as well just heartbreaking just yeah it's it's awful and poor Mark Walton yeah geez it's just can you imagine but that's the thing it's like I can't imagine like as you said like the guilt that you would feel even though it's nothing to do with you even though you did absolutely nothing wrong just having your name involved the guilt you must feel but also the concept of having to go to a courtroom and defend yourself against some of the most heinous awful things that people can yeah accuse you of and you have to and there is absolutely no evidence for it whatsoever but you still have to say I didn't fuck that cat but you have exactly I didn't I haven't touched children like you still have to say it and it's just oh it just makes you go cold it's horrible it's awful but yes so we've got to wrap up because I've had two pints and I'm going to wet myself okay we'll wrap up then so I suppose all that's left for us to do is all the nice things so if you want to come and have a chat with us you can you can email us on sinistersouthpodcast.gmail.co.uk whoop whoop no dot com sorry I got the first bit right this time I got the other bit wrong who knows try all variations of that theme and we'll see what happens but yeah you can send us an email there you can also leave us a comment on the website which is sinistersouthpod.co.uk that's where I'm getting the code at UK from there you go there's an Instagram you can DM us you can just chat to us in the comments you can sometimes we reply most of the times we reply yeah sometimes I reply pissed and then delete them very quickly thinking don't say that and if you ever see one of those no you didn't no you didn't like a golden ticket screenshot it before she deletes it fucking did not screenshot it to win a prize we've also got a tick tock that has had new stuff that I keep getting served you might like this I'm like I don't I fucking don't so yeah we're over there as well there's the Facebook group by the lovely Lu the lovely Lu hi Lu yeah that's over there and we now exciting news we actually have some Patreon episodes that have been edited so so look we can't even blame Will now we've got to pull our fingers out and we've got to set it up we've got to put them up online and do all of that stuff so that will be coming shortly like as soon guys imminently so yeah so Gavin we will get the podcast off on Patreon very very soon so that you can have some more episodes and I think we're gonna like I mean I haven't spoken to Rachel about this yet so okay news bye but I think maybe like the launch episode of Patreon or like the first episode you'd get yeah however it works I don't know I don't have to deal with the admin of this stuff I'm the talent she is the talent oh but I think we'll do the long-awaited full Q&A oh yeah no that's a good idea as a first step that's a good one and then we've got some short episodes like bonus content and stuff like that yeah coming for it but yeah I think that that makes sense I think that's that does make a lot of sense I think that's good because these questions have been there since like October yeah cool we should probably answer those I could take it in well before Hannah wees herself and the Guinness seeps through her we'll say goodbye all right guys see you next week all right love you lots bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye