A Tragedy Behind Closed Doors: Sayagi Sivanantham

In the summer of 2020, the quiet suburb of Mitcham was shaken by an unthinkable tragedy. Five-year-old Sayagi Sivanantham was found critically injured in her family’s flat, and what followed would unravel into a story that forced a difficult national reckoning. In this episode, we explore the human story behind the headlines – one of a vibrant little girl, a community in shock, and the quiet crisis hiding in plain sight.

This case asks uncomfortable questions. About mental health, motherhood, and what happens when systems designed to protect don’t catch the warning signs in time.

As always, there is the usual chaos and giggles before the case kicks off. This week is the tale of "Rachel and Hannahs very annoying day". 

Sources used for this episode include:

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57598039

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53252015

 https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/sep/11/london-woman-in-court-over-killing-of-five-year-old-daughter 

https://news.sky.com/story/mitcham-murder-investigation-after-girl-five-dies-in-knife-incident-at-flat-12018900 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/metropolitan-police-mitcham-london-b942517.html 

https://www.tamilguardian.com/content/british-tamil-child-murdered-london 

https://www.arabnews.com/tags/sayagi-sivanantham

 https://www.itv.com/news/london/2020-07-01/murder-investigation-following-the-death-of-girl-5-in-mitcham 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/mother-kills-daughter-covid-lockdown-depression-sutha-sivanantham-b942445.html

 https://news.sky.com/story/mitcham-woman-in-court-charged-with-murder-of-five-year-old-daughter-12068821 

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• 16:42 (Cont.) A Tragedy Behind Closed Doors: Sayagi Sivanantham

Transcript

Ep 20 - Sayagi Sivanantham

[Speaker 2]

Hello. Hi, I'm Rachel. I'm Hannah.

And this is the Sinister South podcast, a podcast all about the untoward ongoings in South London. Indeed it is. That's it.

That's my kind of like, more Stuart entry in South London. Apparently I'm going very newsreader all of a sudden. I'm not sure why.

I'm here for it. Thanks, mate. Thanks, mate.

How are you? How am I? What a bloody good question.

Monday has been Monday. Wow. What a what a day today has been.

It's just it's been so full disclosure and all that, Travers. So we were recording on Friday, as is our want. And we realised that there was basically the case, the second case that we were going to record.

There was some issues.

[Speaker 1]

We need to add issues. Okay.

[Speaker 2]

We needed to sort it. So Hannah was planning anyway, to come around. It is now Monday evening.

Hannah was planning on coming around tonight to record anyway. But then we've just had a whole catalogue of stuff today.

[Speaker 1]

So I woke up this morning. Fine. Was like, pottering about.

Right, got to my laptop. Nope. Nope.

Absolutely not. I was using it yesterday. Absolutely fine.

Nope. Not even turning on. No, fuck you.

Nothing. Okay, fun. That's great.

What do I do? So I'm kind of looking around aimlessly, as if maybe I had a secret laptop vending machine I'd forgotten about. Fair, fair.

I mean, it happens to the best of us, mate. Oh, yes, I could just get one from here. I forgot.

I live in an Apple store. Or Currys. Or Currys.

Or Currys. So I was just like, well, I know what I'll do whenever I'm faced with any problem in my life that I don't have an immediate answer for. I'm going to text Rach.

I'm just going to text Rach and be like, hi, this is a thing. So this happened. Fucked.

Fuck. It's fucked. Help.

And you're very kind and said, I have a spare come round. And in the meantime, I'd managed to find claw out of Richard's hands, even though he wasn't there. My original personal laptop has no affiliation to any job I've ever had.

I find that so I brought that with me. But I walked in. I was like, oh, you've had a morning too.

I could tell immediately by I just walked in. I was like, hi, I'm here. Hello.

[Speaker 2]

I had a morning. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had I was getting my child into a school uniform on the side of the road outside school this morning.

So that was fun. That was fun. My lovely counsellor, Lisa.

Hi, Lisa.

[Speaker 1]

Jesus, if your counsellor is honest to God, bless her.

[Speaker 2]

Like the fact that the woman has to put up with me for an hour every week is just enough. I don't think she's a fully signed up member of the page.

[Speaker 1]

She just can't get enough. She's obsessed with you.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah. Poor Lisa just had to listen to I trauma dump anyway, but just kind of completely bear my soul today. And I don't think she was prepared.

Bless her. So that was my morning. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]

But I did change the entire trajectory of your day. You did. And it was wonderful because your ass looked fantastic.

And I simply had to tell you.

[Speaker 2]

Thank you. I was very pleased. And then I got the pleasure of your company all day, which is brilliant because we don't get to do that very often anymore.

No. So it was it was nice. It was all turned around for the best in the end.

We'll see.

[Speaker 1]

I've not read this case yet.

[Speaker 2]

So it'll be fine. It'll be fine. We'll figure it out.

It's all good. It's all good. How are you apart from Monday being Monday?

[Speaker 1]

Yeah, all right. Had a lovely weekend, celebrated a friend's birthday with her, which was very nice. Very pleasant.

Yeah. I don't know. I feel like I say this every week.

There's either loads going on where I can be like, and I went to here and I did this and I was at this gig. Or I'm like, I don't know. I can't remember.

I don't even know if I've eaten. I'm not sure. Days have gone past.

There has been some time elapsed. Time is forever marching forwards. Do not go still into that dark night or whatever that phrase is.

That's kind of where we're at mentally today. Fair, fair, fair. I think I'm fine.

Good. I think I'm actually in an all right place.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah. Good. I believe so.

I like that for you. I'm very happy. We've got another, you've got another evening with me tomorrow.

Oh yeah. I was like, fuck, have I got to write another case? No, no, no, no, no.

This time we're going to, we're going to hear from a policeman. So yeah, we're going to hear from, I think he's an ex retired police officer, but he is apparently did a lot of work in London and quite a lot of it in the South of London. So will we heckle if we know he's getting things wrong?

Oh, 100% we will. 100% we will. I'm also thinking about how I can surreptitiously give some sort of business card that I don't have that doesn't exist and be like, hi, we do a true crime podcast.

Can we have your login so that Hannah can get some more verifiable information? We would just really like to have a look at whatever... Hannah's sick of reading the mail.

Exactly. We just want whatever the British equivalent of CODIS is, please. That would be wonderful.

Thank you. But yes, we'll get access to whatever we can. Access to the man.

We'll let you know, Trevor, if the police are able to take a joke. Wow. Well, I don't know.

We'll see what Tuesday brings as to whether or not I'm in a nice mood.

[Speaker 1]

We're both going to be trying to get into central London at some point. So, you know, if you hear that the entirety of the rail network in this country falters, you can blame us. It will be us.

Inevitably, it will be our fault.

[Speaker 2]

It will be. It will. But there we go.

There we go. Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 1]

Birthdays are nice, though. You had fun. Yeah, I had a really good time and it was lovely.

And it was one of those where she'd brought together quite a different mix of friendship groups. I'm always a bit hesitant being like, oh, I don't know everyone in the room. Yeah.

What if they all talk to me and perceive me at once? But it was a genuinely very lovely group. Nice.

Of people. Um, yeah. And I was chatting to one of my friends who's getting married in August.

And it's, you know, you know, me. I love a wedding.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Speaker 1]

So any excuse to talk about colour schemes and. I love that. Candle placement.

Nice. Is it a good colour scheme? Yeah.

I mean, she's doing a very cool wedding. It's going to be amazing, but it's not like super formal. And there's no bells and whistles.

So I wouldn't say there's an exact colour scheme, but there's like. Hints of. Yeah, there's just hints of bits and bobs.

And I don't want to give too much away because it's her wedding, right? But there's just some some cool bits. And I think it'll be a nice vibe and.

[Speaker 2]

Nice.

[Speaker 1]

I'm looking forward to it for her.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah. As well as me. I think you're going to have an absolute wedding time.

I've only got one wedding this year. It's my brother. Oh, God.

Yeah, of course it is. It's quite a quite an important one. Quite a big one.

Yeah. Yeah. Better shout for that one.

[Speaker 1]

You probably do have to go.

[Speaker 2]

Probably should. RSVP.

[Speaker 1]

Soz. Can't make it. Wash my hair.

[Speaker 2]

Oh, dear. I have said to my sister-in-law, well soon to be sister-in-law quite a few times, just blink if you want to escape. Let me know.

Oh, dear. No, nice. I had a good weekend this weekend.

I had a child-free weekend.

[Speaker 1]

Well, I was just about to say all day. I very patiently waited and not asked you about your dinner.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah, it was good. It was it was nice. It was one of those where, like, I think the promise of it was slightly more.

So this is Six by?

[Speaker 1]

This is Six by Nico.

[Speaker 2]

The food was nice.

[Speaker 1]

Right.

[Speaker 2]

It was food that I had to, I kind of like had to go and do something of this ilk to make myself eat the food that I was eating. It's stuff I wouldn't have ordered. Right, you wouldn't have chosen.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]

So it's like the first the first course was like olive beignet and a black black olive beignet and then like basically beef tartare. And I don't like either of those things. No.

But that was my favourite dish. Really?

[Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]

So but like if I'd seen that on a menu, I would not have gone. Yeah, I'm gonna have that. Yeah, no, obviously.

But because it was a set menu and you get what you're given, basically, it was it was all very nice. So that was good. But it was meant to be.

Well, it was like a sort of escape room thing. And it was it was the six wonders of the world. And we had to do like answer riddles and puzzles and all of that.

And then like they brought you your course out. You had to tell the waitress what your answer was. And then you got the next one.

Or she punched you in the face. Punched me in the face. Just withhold food quite aggressively.

No, and it was and it was all it was all fine. It was quite easy. Okay.

And it was a bit like it was a bit anticlimactic. I kind of expected a little bit more.

[Speaker 1]

Like almost performative.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Speaker 1]

I'm not really doing it. I'm not really working for my food here. I'm just under the pretence that I'm working for my food.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah, exactly. But no, it was nice. It was lovely that, you know, Will and I actually got some time together.

And we spent an evening really bizarrely, where we didn't talk about the children once. Whoa, you guys. Did you just talk about me the whole time?

We did just talk about you. And how much we love you. When we're going to get the mezzanine.

All of that sort of stuff. But yeah, no, it was just like, it was really nice. We actually had stuff to talk to each other about.

It wasn't just, oh, don't forget on Tuesday. You've got to do this job. So that was nice.

That was good for you, babe. And then the children came back. And that was lovely.

No, to be fair, it was genuinely lovely.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]

I actually had missed them.

[Speaker 1]

Exactly.

[Speaker 2]

And all that. So yeah, we just touched feet. Oh, I didn't mean to.

I'm so sorry. I feel sick now. You know how I feel about feet.

I'm so sorry. I didn't realise. And they're bare and everything.

[Speaker 1]

I know. We've both got bare feet. They just touched.

I'm going to have to set my legs on fire now.

[Speaker 2]

I'm sorry. I thought it was your shoe. That's why I wasn't grossed out by it.

Oh dear. Anywho, anywho. You've got a story for me today, haven't you?

Yeah, I do.

[Speaker 1]

I'm nervous. I'm going to put it out there. You don't need to be nervous.

No, I think it's good to be up front about these things, right? Yeah. And there's a few different elements of nerve wrackery for me.

One, there's a lot of pronunciation for me to do here. Yes, yes. Which I want to get right.

And there's also just sensitivity to different cultures and stuff like that. And again, trawling through available information to try and cherry pick the pertinent stuff, ignore the sensationalism. Yeah.

But also like just being fully transparent. We've had, there's been two cases in our year of podcasting where I've left details out because I thought they were kind of red top sensationalism. Yeah.

And actually have been not called out because everyone's been lovely, but have been challenged on it fairly. Yeah. And it's left me a bit shaky in my own judgment.

Let's just say that as to whether I'm being too sensitive and actually I'm just censoring. Yeah, fair. Rather than kind of what it is in my head, which is trying to...

There's such a fine line. Like I don't ever want it to be, you know, it's very unlikely for me you'll ever get kind of a slasher or a gore kind of story. But potentially what I need is to find, as if South London won't have one, is to find one of those and kind of do what's it immersion therapy on myself where I have to talk about it in that kind of graphic detail because otherwise I find I'm too scared to.

Yeah, fair enough, fair enough. So yeah, all of that is to say I've got nine pages of stuff here and I don't know how much of it will make the final edit. So it's just also it's just a straight up apology to Will, because he's actually gonna have to work on this one.

He's not just gonna be able to put us on one and a half speed and just get rid of ums. Yeah, anyway. It'll all be good.

If I over apologize for myself, I'm just going to talk myself into not doing it.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah, well, all I am going to say, though, is that I don't know anything about this case other than the names. And I know that you've been trying to work out the pronunciations. And I just wanted to say that these names are Tamil, correct?

[Speaker 1]

Well, from Sri Lanka.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah, so I wouldn't say a friend, but I have an acquaintance who is from Sri Lanka and who admits that they themselves cannot pronounce some of the names in Tamil because they're just like, it's just even I think even Sri Lankans can have a bit of a troubling time with the language.

[Speaker 1]

And I mean, bearing in mind, I can never put my fucking teeth in. I don't know why I do this to myself. Yeah, fair, fair, fair, fair.

So, yeah, what I'm just saying is I'm doing my best and be gentle with me. But also, I'm not I'm not opposed to being fact checked. Yeah.

So if that needs to happen, please do feel free to to email.

[Speaker 2]

Listen, I think that it's one of those things where it's like, as we've said multiple times before, we're not journalists. We're not impervious. We're not impervious.

Is that what I mean? No, I'm I'm. You're not infallible.

I am fallible. You are fallible. Yes, you're not omnipotent and omnipresent and infallible.

[Speaker 1]

Don't be rude.

[Speaker 2]

But no, as we've said multiple times before, we're not journalists. We're doing the best we can with the info that's there. And we are having to make judgment calls on things sometimes because we do we want to be respectful to the victims.

And also one of the issues of doing a podcast about crime that happens in your local area is that there is a possibility that at some point you might end up meeting someone that's involved in these cases. So we never want to say anything that's going to potentially cause upset or harm to anybody. And I think that that is entirely reasonable.

So I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Speaker 1]

I, I think. I'm glad I've said this and I want it left in. But I can also there's two people that I know regularly listen that I know will say to me, Oh, would you ever just get on with it?

I was listening to that episode. Did you know it went on? Don't stop.

You have a fun caveat in yourself. So I'm going to try and have a bit of that kind of attitude.

[Speaker 2]

I think fair.

[Speaker 1]

Look, it's just important to get these stories out there, right? That's the whole fucking premise.

[Speaker 2]

Exactly that. Exactly that. I've got you, babe.

We're all here. Let's go.

[Speaker 1]

I mean, you're going to have, you personally, I think, going to have a problem with my opening sentence. So here we go. Okay, I'm ready for it.

The bustling yet peaceful suburb of Mitcham, nestled within the London Borough of Merton, typically offers its residents a sense of quiet suburban safety interwoven with a vibrant cultural mosaic. Oh my God.

[Speaker 2]

All right, bloody hell.

[Speaker 1]

I've been overthinking, okay?

[Speaker 2]

You have some. It's all good. It's all good.

We're good.

[Speaker 1]

Characterised by its leafy parks and diverse population, Mitcham faced significant challenges during 2020, notably exasperated by the pressures of the COVID-19 pandemic. It was here on Monarch Parade that a tragedy unfolded, casting a long shadow over this close-knit community and highlighting deep systematic issues in mental health care. On the 30th of June, 2020, the life of five-year-old Sayagi Sivanantham was tragically cut short.

Sayagi, a bright, affectionate girl who neighbours remembered fondly for her infectious laughter and friendly nature, became the heartbreaking face of a preventable tragedy. Her untimely death at the hands of her own mother triggered national scrutiny into the overlooked epidemic of maternal mental health. So who was Sayagi?

Born and raised in Mitcham, Sayagi was known for her joyful spirit. Neighbours described her as a playful, cheerful child, often seen smiling and waving as she played outside her home on Monarch Parade. Teachers and family friends alike remembered her as affectionate and imaginative, a child who brought joy to those around her.

Anecdotally, one neighbour reflected, she was always laughing and running around, seeing her brightened my day. She was the heartbeat of our little community. Her loss was not only a personal tragedy for her family, but became symbolic of broader societal failings.

Sutha moved from Sri Lanka in 2006 following her arranged marriage to Saganthan Sivantham. The couple settled into a modest flat in Mitcham, with Saganthan employed locally at a supermarket. For years, neighbours perceived them as a quiet, peaceful family.

Or couple, I should say. However, beneath the surface, Sutha struggled profoundly with mental health issues. Beginning in August of 2019, she presented repeatedly to healthcare professionals, complaining of physical symptoms such as chest pain, stomach cramps, dizziness and drastic weight loss.

Despite numerous consultations, doctors failed to recognise these as semantic manifestations of underlying severe mental health distress. Semantic manifestations, or semantic symptom disorders, occur when psychological distress presents itself through physical symptoms. These can include pain, fatigue and gastrointestinal issues with no identifiable medical cause.

The person experiencing them is not imagining the discomfort, rather their body is reacting to emotional or mental strain in ways that can mimic serious illness. We've both got our hands in the air. These symptoms often prompt repeated medical consultations, yet the underlying psychiatric issue is frequently overlooked or misdiagnosed.

Sutha's mental health rapidly deteriorated throughout early 2020, exasperated by the isolation brought on by the pandemic. In February of 2020, she was briefly hospitalised at Springfield Hospital and diagnosed with moderate depression featuring somatic symptoms. She was discharged with medication and outpatient support, but no meaningful safeguarding plan.

Over the subsequent months, her paranoia intensified, manifesting in severe insomnia, social withdrawal and frequent calls to emergency services, signals that tragically went unheeded. So I've got a bit... There's a few side quests in this one, right?

And the first one that I started to look into was the maternal mental health crisis, because I'm a laugh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. So maternal mental health remains one of the most under-addressed areas in the UK's health system.

NHS data shows that approximately one in five women experience mental health challenges during pregnancy or in the first year after giving birth. These challenges range from mild anxiety to severe conditions like postnatal depression and, more rarely, postpartum psychosis. One particularly poignant and comparable case is that of Charlotte Bevan, a 30-year-old mother from Bristol.

On the 2nd of December 2014, just four days after giving birth, Charlotte walked out of St Michael's Hospital wearing pyjamas, slippers and no coat, carrying her newborn baby, Zannie, I think. CCTV captured her leaving the maternity ward Tragically, both their bodies were discovered at the bottom of Avon Gorge the following day. I remember that.

Charlotte had a known history of mental illness. She had expressed fears about caring for her baby and showed signs of postnatal psychosis. Despite this, hospital staff discharged her with minimal mental health intervention.

A subsequent NHS investigation found missed opportunities and poor interagency communication between maternity and mental health teams. The story prompted widespread reviews of perinatal mental health support and has become a reference point for campaigners demanding proactive joined-up care. It also underscores how women like Southa, who present with anxiety, fear or somatic symptoms, are too often discharged without proper safety nets in place.

So what happened on the 30th of June 2020? At approximately 4pm, a resident living on Monarch Parade heard what they later described as a blood-curdling scream coming from one of the flats above a row of shops. This wasn't shouting or the kind of noise that might accompany an argument.

This was sharper, panicked and cut through the usual suburban hum. Multiple neighbours reported hearing it, but by the time anyone reached their doors or stairwells, the flat had fallen silent. All except neighbour Elsa Gonzalez, who had heard the screaming and then heard crying coming from the next door flat.

Mrs Gonzalez, a former emergency department worker, rushed inside to her neighbour's flat and found the mother and child in the bedroom. Quote, I saw the woman laying on the floor in a pool of blood. There was blood everywhere.

I looked on the bed and saw the girl. She was covered in a blanket. Emergency services were called and arrived swiftly.

Paramedics and police entered the flat and were met with the harrowing scene. Five-year-old Sayagi lay motionless, having suffered multiple stab wounds to her chest and neck. Nearby was her mother, Sutha, alive but visibly in shock, with wounds of her own to her torso and her arms, which were later identified as self-inflicted.

The scene was described by first responders as eerily quiet. There were no signs of a struggle, no overturned furniture, no signs of forced entry. It was as though the violence had erupted suddenly and then ended just as quickly.

Sayagi was still alive when paramedics arrived and was rushed to hospital under police escort along with her mother. Despite all efforts, Sayagi was pronounced dead shortly after their arrival at hospital.

[Speaker 2]

Oh, it's so sad.

[Speaker 1]

Sutha, whose own injuries would see her hospitalised for months, told doctors that on the day of the killing, she felt as if she were asleep and dreaming, adding, and I quote, I didn't realise I was hurting her.

[Speaker 2]

Oh, it makes you go cold.

[Speaker 1]

Detectives from the Met Specialist Crime Command were called in immediately. Initial investigations ruled out any third-party involvement. There had been no break-in.

There had been no unknown attacker. The conclusion was swift and horrifying. This was a case of filicide.

Sutha had killed her daughter in a moment of psychological collapse. Another neighbour later told reporters, quote, we'd seen less of her lately, but you wouldn't think anything like this could happen. You just wouldn't.

So in the hours that followed, police cordoned off the building and began gathering statements from neighbours and passers-by. News of the incident spread quickly through the local Tamil and South Asian communities, with many expressing both horror and complete confusion. Outside the flat, a small memorial of flowers, teddy bears and candles began to grow.

Children who had played with Sayagi left notes. Adults stood in silence, unable to comprehend the violence that had erupted on their doorstep. Local councillors and MPs released statements expressing condolences and reiterating calls for improved access to culturally sensitive mental health services.

So it kind of initially ignited that one conversation. So the story behind the tragedy is not one of sudden rage or of calculated harm. It is the story of a mother whose grip on reality had quietly and steadily eroded over months.

Following her brief hospitalisation in February of 2020, Sutha had continued to spiral. She feared she was dying of cancer, despite repeated medical reassurance to the contrary. She called emergency services multiple times, reporting chest pain, reporting dizziness and fainting.

And on each occasion, her physical health was checked, but her mental health was not. There was no safeguarding alert, no child protection referral. Her medical file had been all but...

Basically, it had just been closed. One relative later told investigators that Sutha had begun speaking of death frequently. She feared that someone would harm her and harm Sayagi.

At times, she claimed to see or hear things others couldn't, but she also functioned well enough to remain under the radar. She was still shopping, still cooking, still walking about and being seen with her daughter. The quiet, private nature of her deterioration meant no single service flagged her as high risk.

So hard. And it was a kind of a toxic combination of fear, of stigma and of systemic oversight that created the conditions for catastrophe. So here's my second side quest of the case.

And it's, I've kept it really short, but I think it's important to add to the context of this. So the COVID-19 pandemic did more than strain ICU beds. It strained the very systems designed to protect the most vulnerable.

Between March and June of 2020, mental health services across the UK saw unprecedented disruption. According to NHS Digital, 25% of all mental health referrals were reduced or suspended. Antenatal and postnatal appointments moved online.

In-person home visits were very rare and face-to-face assessments for anxiety or psychosis all but vanished for months. Yep. The Office for National Statistics reported that rates of depression in UK adults doubled during the first lockdown from 10% to nearly 20% of the entire population.

[Speaker 2]

Fucking hell.

[Speaker 1]

And among women and young children, the figure was even higher. According to the Maternal Mental Health Alliance, seven out of 10 women experiencing mental health issues during pregnancy or in the first year after birth do not receive any intervention. For migrant or ethnic minority women, the rates of undertreatment are significantly worse and that is before you add COVID into the mix.

Fucking mad. So that leads me on to my third side quest. Fair, fair, fair.

Which I've gone a bit longer with this one because I think it is relevant and I just wanted to do it justice.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Speaker 1]

Stop caveating yourself, Anna. Yeah. So it's the Tamil motherhood and the weight of silence.

So to understand some of the pressures that might shape a woman's mind in crisis in Tamil communities, you need to step away from the pathology and into the culture. Mental health in Tamil society, whether in South India, Sri Lanka or the UK, isn't talked about in the same way that it might be in more Western settings. Not because people don't suffer, they do, but because suffering is often expected to be born in silence, particularly if you're a mother.

Tamil culture places extraordinary value on motherhood. The Amma, A-M-M-A, the Tamil word for mother, is revered, almost sanctified. She is expected to be selfless, enduring and resilient, but the idealisation comes at a cost.

A mother who falters, who cries too much, who says she feels nothing or too much, may be seen as failing in her duty, not just to her child, but to her family and to her community, and failing her manam, it means honour, M-A-N-A-M, manam. Manam, yeah, I would say so. Manam, anyway.

And that word looms large here. It means honour, dignity, face. And for many Tamil families, keeping up appearances is paramount.

Admitting to postnatal depression, anxiety, or simply feeling overwhelmed, isn't just difficult, it's often culturally taboo. You don't confess emotional pain, you describe it as physical symptoms. So what starts as sadness gets called headaches.

What's really anxiety becomes chest pain. There are traditional rituals in Tamil culture designed to support new mothers, rest periods, oil baths and herbal remedies. But these focus almost entirely on physical recovery and ritual purity.

Emotional wellbeing, if mentioned at all, is secondary. And once that formal postnatal phase ends, you're expected to get on with things. There is also another thing here that, again, I found it very difficult to verify, but it didn't sound to me as if she had a huge amount of immediate community.

There was community around her, but immediate family, who would usually have taken on the role of that immediate treatment of the mother. So I'm not saying it didn't happen or that between them as a couple, they didn't do it, I don't know.

[Speaker 2]

But it just, yeah. It must just be so hard, coming from, she came to this country for marriage, and you're leaving your village behind you. There's that saying, it takes a village.

And honestly, I have lived experience of how much that is true. So the idea of not having that village because you have physically moved yourself away from them, it must be so isolating. And then you chuck in the fact that it's 2020.

It's just madness.

[Speaker 1]

So in a modern healthcare setting, this silence can be misread. A Tamil mother might attend every appointment, ask a few questions and leave quickly. She might present with fatigue, body pain, stomach trouble, never using the word sad or lost or empty.

She might refuse medication, citing religious concerns. Realistically, the deeper truth is fear. It's fear of being labelled, of being judged or of being seen as weak.

And like in any religion or spirituality, it plays a really complex role. Mental illness might be spoken about in terms of karma in Tamil communities or a spiritual disturbance. Sometimes it's whispered that someone is cursed or possessed.

And these interpretations don't always mean cruelty. Sometimes they're rooted in care, but they can delay access to proper treatment. And then there's something that kind of spoke to me without, again, being explicitly referenced.

But there is fear when someone moves to the UK. There is fear of the child protection systems that are in place. There are fear of professionals misinterpreting what's said.

So fear that saying I'm not coping might be seen as or might be taken as, I'm not safe to parent. And I think that's something that our healthcare system doesn't necessarily account for. That it's not explicitly explained to those whose English might be their second language or culturally they're not.

They might have settled in the UK, but that doesn't necessarily mean they've had to embody the culture that we might have inherently.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah, of course. I mean, to be honest, just as a caveat to what you've just said there, I 100% agree that for people where they are new to the environment, where they don't necessarily have the strongest grasp of the English language, where things can get misconstrued, especially in medical settings, I don't think that that is that feeling of saying the wrong thing and getting the wrong response. I don't think that that is just a feeling.

I think that's every mother, if I'm honest. Fair play. I think any mother who, to have the courage to turn around to somebody when, and it's quite interesting you're saying about like Tamil culture and about it being, you know, that idea of face and about being honourable.

It's very similar to a stiff upper lip. It's incredibly similar. And to have the courage to turn around to a medical professional and say, I am not coping as a new mother when society tells you it should be the happiest period of your life.

You should be in instant love with this small thing that's keeping you awake all night that you can't understand and it can't understand you, where your body has betrayed you in certain ways and then is like creating something to sustain life in others. And it's this magical, but also fucking terrifying situation. I think any mother turning around, having to say those words, I am not coping, is a level of, there is a level of fear regardless of your background.

[Speaker 1]

And I think what became apparent to me is kind of, there's also, whether it's true or not, Western services, I say Western, I mean the UK, I mean America as well to an extent, where, and again, it's a double-edged sword, like rightly or wrongly, all of that, children are taken away. Children are taken into care. And seemingly, it's almost a sense that it's much more trigger happy in these cultures than it is in other countries or other cultures or with other forms of government.

[Speaker 2]

I'd say that there's probably more prevalence of it. And as you say, rightly or wrongly, because in many cases, it's definitely the right thing to do. But in others, it is, being a mother, being a parent, everything's a fucking knife edge.

[Speaker 1]

And I suppose this sentence here does come on the back of me saying about Tamil communities in particular, but from what you've just said, I think it's still a pertinent sentence that I've written, that without culturally competent services, women fall through the cracks. They do, 100%. It doesn't matter what culture it is.

It's not a one-size-fits-all. It's not. It's really not.

For anyone of any background. No, no. So another addition to that is that a lot of, as I vaguely mentioned earlier, a lot of mental health services move to phone-based support.

And women like Sutha, who may not have been comfortable discussing psychotic thoughts or suicidal ideation over the phone, in English, lost their final chance of being seen. Christ. So in the months following the tragedy, Sutha underwent extensive psychiatric evaluation.

She was diagnosed with severe depressive disorder with psychotic features. At the time of the killing, she was believed to have been suffering from intense delusional thinking, including the belief that her daughter would suffer unbearably if left alone, or that death might somehow protect her from future harm. Sutha had originally been charged with murder, but a plea of manslaughter by diminished responsibility was accepted by the CPS.

In June of 2021, exactly a year after Sayagi's death, Sutha was handed a hospital order under Section 37 of the Mental Health Act, along with a restriction order under Section 41. This meant that she would be detained indefinitely in a secure psychiatric hospital with her release subject only to approval from the Ministry of Justice. The judge presiding over the case described it as one of the most tragic they had encountered.

Quote, the loss of a child in these circumstances is almost beyond comprehension. The defendant's actions, while devastating, were clearly rooted in profound and untreated mental illness. In a victim impact statement read to the court, the girl's father, Suganthan, said the family had enjoyed a very happy, fulfilling and blissful life before the killing.

And his wife was, quote, an exemplary mother who would do anything to nurture her child. And in an awful way, that's what she thought she was doing. That's what she thought she was doing.

The local community in Mitcham responded with remarkable empathy. There were no protests, no blame. Instead, there was just quiet reflection.

Many saw the cases as emblematic of what happens when already overstretched systems fail to act and how easily mental illness can be hidden in plain sight. The case forced a critical reckoning within the public health and mental health sectors. Though the individual professionals involved may not have acted negligently by clinical definition, the sum of their inaction, the missed patterns and the failure to connect symptoms across settings and the lack of integrated safeguarding revealed a system outpaced by need and disconnected in practice.

In the wake of Sayagi's death, NHS trusts across London, particularly the South West London and St George's Mental Health NHS Trust, who manage Springfield, they come up again, reviewed their safeguarding protocols, especially in relation to maternal mental health. While no single named initiative was launched specifically in response to this case, it fed into wider policy momentum driven by tragedies like those of Charlotte Bevan, Tanya Clarence and Sayagi. Key learning points emerged across reviews into maternal mental health care post 2020.

Multi-agency breakdowns were a recurring feature. In Sutha's case, GPs, mental health crisis teams and safeguarding professionals operated in complete silos. Somatic presentation of psychiatric illness were too often misinterpreted solely through a physical lens, despite Sutha's known history of mental health distress.

Face-to-face support, already under pressure before COVID, became nearly impossible during lockdowns. Phone-based triage failed mothers in crisis who needed fuller assessments. And cultural competency was lacking.

Many services failed to recognise that in some ethnic communities, including Tamil households, seeking psychiatric help is associated with shame or dishonour, particularly for women. The stigma discourages disclosure and amplifies isolation. In 2021, the Royal College of Psychiatrists renewed calls for mandatory cultural awareness training in perinatal services.

NHS England also pledged further investment in specialist maternal mental health hubs aimed at women experiencing moderate to severe difficulties after birth, including those whose issues develop several years postpartum, as Sutha's did. Campaigners such as the Maternal Mental Health Alliance continue to call for reform in how mothers are assessed, treated and followed up, emphasising that mental health risk can be quiet, non-linear and deeply hidden. As one clinical report put it, quote, we cannot only respond to women in crisis.

Prevention means listening properly when they say something feels wrong, even if they can't articulate it clearly. This shift towards early, sustained and culturally competent care remains a work in progress, but Sayagi's story has become part of the wider tapestry, a case referenced by advocates and clinicians pushing for a system that sees beyond the surface. Sayagi should be at primary school, making friends, annoying teachers and learning to swim.

Her mother should be well, or at very least, she'd have been offered the kind of support and help that could have prevented the worst outcome a parent can imagine. But instead, a child is gone, a mother is detained, a family is shattered and a community is left asking how such a breakdown was allowed to unfold without intervention. This case does not offer the tidy resolution of guilt and punishment.

There is no villain in the traditional sense, only a system that failed both parent and child, only signs that were visible in retrospect but ignored in the moment. And that's what makes this story so urgent to tell, because it forces us to ask difficult questions about how we treat mental health, not just in hospitals or clinics, but in homes, in conversations, in community settings. It asks what happens when care systems fragment, when follow-ups fail and when people are too stretched or too siloed to listen closely enough.

But perhaps most powerfully, it reminds us of what's at stake when we don't.

[Speaker 2]

The end. Mate, very, very, very well done. Very sensitively told.

[Speaker 1]

Well, Jesus Christ, if I didn't want kids before looking into these mothers and their poor mental health, I definitely don't now. Parents and then this. Yeah, that's it.

[Speaker 2]

I don't know why you do it to yourself.

[Speaker 1]

I'm having it as direct to me.

[Speaker 2]

Yeah, but like, yeah, there were points in that where I was very close to tears. Listen, when you have kids, especially when you have kids that are similar age to victims, and I think weirdly this one is, they're all sad. Of course.

But the Tanya Clarence case.

[Speaker 1]

There was more to be angry about because there were so many more flashpoints.

[Speaker 2]

Yes, but also it was, I can't understand what she did. I can't. Of course not.

But knowing how ill the children were, knowing that their quality of life was severely diminished. It's not that I understand it, but you can kind of start, you can see the incredibly, incredibly warped logic. Yes.

But you can see how that may have come about.

[Speaker 1]

You can put the pieces together to work out the puzzle.

[Speaker 2]

Exactly. With this one, it's just, it's so senseless and it's so upsetting. A five-year-old should not, it's just no, that's not what happens to five-year-olds.

[Speaker 1]

It's not what happens to mother.

[Speaker 2]

I agree. It's what I was just about to say. And what I find really interesting was the point you made about perinatal health care.

And a lot of the time, you can completely understand why, but a lot of the time whenever people talk about perinatal mental health, it is postnatal depression. It is something that's linked to a small baby. And yes, 100%.

[Speaker 1]

The gut reaction to it is, you're not bonding, you can't breastfeed, or your baby's got colic and never sleeps. And it's pure exhaustion and the pressure of it all. And then why don't I love my child in this way that I should?

All of that stuff, which is fucking traumatic in itself.

[Speaker 2]

No one's undermining that.

[Speaker 1]

But you don't think about it as kind of five years down the line.

[Speaker 2]

Exactly. And actually, there is so much to be said for the strain and the stress that is put onto a mother when you have a fully grown child. It is an entirely different strain and an entirely different stress.

But I'm going to be honest, as someone who has been dealing with not this sort of shit, but dealing with a five-year-old, it's fucking harder. It's completely different. And again, I'm not minimising PND at all, but it is so completely different.

The stress and strain of a baby in comparison to a child that is able to articulate themselves but not particularly. And they can articulate themselves well, but not in a way that makes any sense to a fully grown person, but makes complete sense to them.

[Speaker 1]

Or they can articulate it, but they can't fathom. They don't know why the big feelings are happening. So it transfers or is projected into a different way and you're trying to explain to them.

[Speaker 2]

And especially if you are yourself in a delicate mind frame and there is something that triggers, whether that is an anxiety, a depression, whatever that may be, a mental health concern of some sort. Anyone who has a mental illness, regardless of whether you're a parent or not, knows how heavy you can feel on the days when your mental health is bad. And then you throw in this other ball of what is essentially just this chaos in the best way, in the 99.9% of the time, the most phenomenal ball of chaos. But you throw that into it as well, and it's suddenly just, it is all-encompassing. So to not have the vocab, and I don't mean that in terms of the English, may not have been her first language, but to not have the vocabulary because of your culture, because of how you're brought up to not necessarily know how to speak about your mental health, to not have that to be able to communicate it and still be under that pressure. I cannot fathom it, no.

It's just, yeah, I feel for Sootha. I don't condone what she did. I agree that she should be where she is now.

And she should be getting the help that she's getting, but I feel for her.

[Speaker 1]

Oh my God, so much. And I don't know how mothers do it. I don't know how you do it.

And that's not just from the flippant, I'm selfish, I don't want to be up all night or I don't want to deal with somebody. In a really genuine way from a very genuine place, battling your own life and all of the shit that life will continuously throw at you regardless. And then battling theirs for them as well.

And then explaining to them that's what they're doing when they're just saying, well, I hate you and go away. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dealing with that kind of frustration and the anger, but also the feeling of uselessness as well for want of a better word, because no mother I've ever met that's been useless.

But it doesn't stop you feeling like it sometimes. And I can see why. I can get why you'd feel that way.

It's not true, but I can get why you feel that way. It's just so insane. And it's so intense.

[Speaker 2]

It is. And it's interesting what you're saying about, and I think it is very worthwhile to bring in the pandemic, because I think that there was, you know, as someone who had a baby in the pandemic, I was very lucky that it was my second and not my first. I'm not certain that I would have known what the fuck I was doing if it was the oldest.

At least with her being the second one, I kind of had some idea of what was going to happen and how it was going to work and play out. But it was things like, you know, midwife appointments. I was seen by specialist mental health midwives because of the fact that my eldest was premature because of the fact that I did.

It took me a while to bond with her and all of that. And they were like, I must admit, Lewisham maternity will say a lot about Lewisham Hospital.

[Speaker 1]

Oh, no, the maternity is award winning.

[Speaker 2]

But the maternity is phenomenal. The midwives are phenomenal. And, you know, just big, if anyone who's listening is from Lewisham maternity, like, thank you.

But like, so I was very lucky in the fact that I was seen by specialist teams. But I was but because I was part of a specialist team, that was the reason I had in-person midwife appointments.

[Speaker 1]

Right, I see.

[Speaker 2]

And had I not been part of the mental health midwifery team, I would not have had in-person midwife appointments. I would have gone to the hospital to have my regular scans, but scans were on my own. I was going to say, no, no, no.

And it's all and there's so much around that. I mean, I know that that's pregnancy and this is a slightly different scenario, but with any sort of. Having a so having an actual physical scenario where you need to be seen by a doctor or a care provider, because it is a physical thing that is happening to you that you need help with.

When you're not getting that. So then imagine that that is completely is a mental issue. It very much like if you're struggling to get it when you're like, you know, my hand is cut open and I can't get into A&E because it's like they're not.

If that's not even present for you to be able to go, I don't feel like this. I feel I feel sad. I feel anxious.

I feel paranoid. I feel I don't feel right. Of course, it was swept under the rug.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah, of course, it was just pushed to the side. I mean, like even taking Covid out of it and not undermining the stress that obviously that put on the NHS. Yeah.

It was unprecedented. I don't know if anyone heard that word at all during the time. I thought it was rather precedented on the line.

Next slide, please. As someone that's had. I'm trying to think of how to articulate this without being like, well, actually, like non mothers get sad too.

But it is true. Well, no, like just to reiterate how difficult it can be like I have had multiple physical ailments. Yeah, yeah.

But which are somatic. Yeah. And it's taken me to the ripe old age of 36 to know that.

Yeah. But even if I could have gone back, even if even if someone close to me had said to me that pain isn't actually in your ovary, that pain is in your brain and you've transferred it like it's something else. What could that be?

I wouldn't have. I can't say that I would have taken that on board. No younger Hannah would have taken that on board.

However, if there was a kind of a trained professional that could deal with it in a specialized way to have reassured me, I might have responded to that. I don't know what I'm trying to say there. I kind of stopped myself because I don't want to just give you a list of all the times I've had somatic.

[Speaker 2]

No, but it's true. But then I think so. I've only ever had again, very lucky she is blessed, but I've only ever had a somatic presentation once.

And it was famously where I turn around and say, oh, yeah, you know, you know, that point where I just went mad that that that's when it was. And it was during. Well, it was the end of 20.

It was 2020, end of 2020, beginning of 2021. And I was absolutely adamant that there was a physical issue with me. I couldn't I could not swallow.

No, I it was the date that threw me.

[Speaker 1]

But then I remembered it. It was after my nan. Yeah, yeah.

But it happened twice.

[Speaker 2]

And yeah, it did.

[Speaker 1]

I was like, hang on a minute. That was because we were in a restaurant. Like, what are you talking about?

[Speaker 2]

Yeah, it happened. It happened multiple times. But like it was one of those things where it's like I was absolutely adamant that any time I ate anything, it was getting lodged in my throat.

It was 100 percent. There was a physical. I couldn't eat.

I every time I was just like, it's it's lodged there. I went to the doctor so many times. And the doctors were like, oh, it could be laryngitis.

Oh, it's tonsillitis. Oh, it's it's this. It's that.

It's we were rattling with the antibiotics. I don't the amount of them. And then but then what was really weird was that when a doctor and it was my GP, my GP said, I think this could be anxiety.

Yeah, I got angry because I was like, you're not being taken seriously.

[Speaker 1]

I'm not making it up.

[Speaker 2]

You're saying it's all in my head. It's not all in my head.

[Speaker 1]

But if someone had said to you the physicality of your symptoms is real. Yeah, that is real. But the stem of it is your anxiety.

Yeah, that would have been a completely different conversation.

[Speaker 2]

Of course it would. And it was the moment that when I realized actually, OK, I may not be dealing with, you know, my nan passing as well as I think I am. This may actually be something that I may not be all right.

Yeah. And then went and got the lovely, lovely, maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's sertraline.

Yeah, who is an absolute goddess in my life. And I thank her for everything that she gives her. Apart from the sweats.

Apart from the sweats. I thank her for every other part of her bounty. But then I was suddenly like, oh, oh, yeah, I see that now.

I see that now. But I suppose, again, like that's that's me being someone who is was born in this country that doesn't have the cultural hang ups around talking about mental health that doesn't have. Or medication.

Yeah. Or medication at all. That still struggled to have that connected in a way and to still be able to understand and accept that.

So when you have all those other barriers put in front of you, like it's just yeah, it's just devastatingly sad. And I don't know what the answer is. Because I don't think that I don't think that the medical professionals in this case, as you say, no one was negligent, but it's just the the dots weren't connected in a way that made it make sense.

[Speaker 1]

It's just this idea, I think, and I've kind of witnessed it to an extent in previous situations of my life, not just professional, but like in. Personal experience as well of just because all the services might be in one building. Yeah, doesn't mean they ever interact with each other unless it's absolutely forced or it's blatant that they have to.

Yeah. And I think that's something that's widely unrecognized. It's more recognized now, but has been a problem for a very, very long time.

Yeah. And I won't get on my soapbox about like community health and how things could be different.

[Speaker 2]

I mean, I'm happy to listen.

[Speaker 1]

Just let me be in charge. Like give me a year in charge of any that's my argument for anything though, isn't it? Give me a year of being in charge of anything in the fucking world and I will fix it, OK?

She will though, she will. I just think it's astounding that it still happens.

[Speaker 2]

I don't know, but you're right because you've only got to look at places like hospitals. And again, personal story, but like when I had issues with my first pregnancy and I mean, spoiler, everything was fine. There was a link to, I had to go see the oncology team at one point.

And then I was going back to the maternity ward and they've not got a fucking clue what it was that oncology said. I've been next to each other in the hospital.

[Speaker 1]

I've literally been in rooms with the heads of departments who had never met each other. It's mad. And like, yeah, bringing them together on a board all of a sudden, then they get to interact with each other and who knows that might trickle down into their departments.

Yeah, it's just. I'm going to get sued.

[Speaker 2]

No, you're fine. You're fine. We've said nothing.

But Rachel said that. I did. It was me.

I don't mind. I'll take the flak. Allegedly.

There we go. All sorted. No defamation here.

But no, honestly, thank you so much. That was a really hard case to do. And I don't think that you needed to caveat as much as you did.

OK, I think actually it was a very. You don't think I should go home and flog myself? No, don't do that.

[Speaker 1]

Don't do that.

[Speaker 2]

No, you're fine. You can save that maybe for next week or something. But no, this week you're all good.

Yeah, very well told. Very sensitively told. And appreciate you.

Thank you. That was a very, very well told case. Thank you very much.

You're welcome. On that note, shall we talk about all the nice things? Why the devil not?

So we have got our lovely, shiny new Patreon, which there are still people adding themselves to, which is mad. What is wrong with you? Weirdos, you weirdos.

I mean, we love you. Please carry on. You're my favourite, obviously.

But yeah, that's odd. But if you fancy going over and checking out the Patreon, please do. Long and short of it is that we will be doing the cases where there is slightly less information, but they're still very much important over on the over there.

And we'll also do some fun things like some Q&A's and all the rest of it. We actually tried to do the Q&A from the Facebook group and everything jumped. That was before we got our lovely, shiny new bit of tech.

So, yes. But expect that at some point soon. Yes.

We've then also got the website, which is SinisterSouthPod.co.uk where you can see more about each of the cases if I've got around to updating it. It's where you find the show notes and stuff as well. All of the show notes are in there.

[Speaker 1]

References and all that stuff.

[Speaker 2]

Yep. And you could also leave us a nice note if you'd like. You can get in touch with us there.

You can get in touch with us on Instagram, which is SinisterSouthPod again. Come and have a chit chat with us over there in the DMs if you fancy it. We've got a TikTok, which is mainly where all the floating heads go.

Yeah. We have the email address itself.

[Speaker 1]

Yes, which is? SinisterSouthPodcast at Gmail.com. Yay.

We had to type it in today because I've got a new laptop. So I remembered it.

[Speaker 2]

I love it.

[Speaker 1]

And I think that's it. I was about to tell the Trevors off, but then I've just realized something. Well, I was like, well, we asked you to design the pins and not one of you sent anything in.

That was Friday. But then I just remembered you haven't actually heard that episode at the time of us recording this episode. So I apologize for the ill will that I had against you for that couple of seconds.

[Speaker 2]

We will take it back. But yeah, and I suppose, yeah, if anyone fancies just sort of, if you've got any cases you want to recommend that you've heard about recently. I just want to chat.

Well, yeah, we're up for a chat. It'd be lovely. Rach will be on holiday.

I will be when this comes out. When this goes out. So I will be at a loose end.

Guys, drop us some nice emails. Tell her how loved she is, please.

[Speaker 1]

And just realized. So the case that brings me a lot of anxiety, you're not going to be in the country for when it goes live.

[Speaker 2]

We haven't planned this one out, have we? It's fine, though. It's fine, because I will be on FaceTime.

[Speaker 1]

I'm going to get cancelled and you're not going to come home.

[Speaker 2]

Look, if you get cancelled, you can come to me. How's that? OK, we'll do that.

[Speaker 1]

If I get...

[Speaker 2]

Guys, cancel me.

[Speaker 1]

Because listen, if I get cancelled, will you pay to fly me out then?

[Speaker 2]

I knew that was coming and I'd already...

[Speaker 1]

And I will need a suite because I have a lot of emotional baggage with me.

[Speaker 2]

Fair, fair, fair, fair. I'll see what I can do. What I find hilarious is that when I said you can come to me, I was sitting there going, could I?

Yeah, I could just about get a plane ticket. But you won't get cancelled because, as I say, it was very well done. So thank you.

And yeah, I suppose then, Travers, that's it. I'm awake.

[Speaker 1]

Yeah, we will see you. Or if I can... With Rachel's next week, which I think is going to be fucking insane from the noises she was making while she was typing earlier.

[Speaker 2]

Mate, you know what? It is going to be fucking insane. It's also one of those where it's like we talk about sidequests.

Oh, wow. We got some sidequests. OK.

And they are mental. So, yes, it will be slightly... No one dies.

Oh, wow. So that's a good one. Yeah.

I mean, there is still some horrible stuff that happens, but no one... No one... No dies.

No dies. No dies. Absolutely no dies.

Brilliant. So, yeah, it will be a bit more of a light one. Your mum will hate it then.

She will. She will turn around immediately and go, well, I'm not listening. So, yeah.

All right, guys. All right. We love you.

And we'll see you later. Love you. Goodbye.

Bye-bye.